To think the Government don't understand where "the north" actually is?

[AdamRyan]

Government have scrapped the Leeds extension of HS2, so it now goes to Manchester. There will be faster trains to Sheffield as well. This apparently is to enable levelling up of "The North"
www.bbc.co.uk/news

AIBU to think Manchester and Sheffield are barely The North in an English context, let alone when you add in Scotland? What exactly does this do for the most deprived communities in the North East and the Lakes?

I'm so annoyed, the North of the UK just constantly gets left behind :(

We shall have to agree to disagree @JollyJoon. To me they are far to far from the Scottish border to be in the North.

Its simple.

Theres the South South. Like Cornwall and Devon. Where no one lives but people holiday.

Then there's the South.. London and surrounding counties where People Live

Then there's the Country... the home counties, Norfolk etc where you have your Second Home.

Then there's the Midlands. Mills, mines etc.

Yorkshire. A country in its own right.

Finally The North. Think there's dragons?

The Home Counties are the counties surrounding London. Norfolk is not one of the Home Counties?

Current scheme is madness, if they were going to do it then they should have at least connected London to Edinburgh and then routed that via Brum and Mancs. This current scheme they have is hardly worth doing, do it once and do it properly.

@Ifailed

Officially, the North of England is made up of: Cheshire, Cumbria, County Durham, East Riding of Yorkshire, Greater Manchester, Lancashire, Merseyside, Northumberland, North Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, Tyne and Wear and West Yorkshire, plus the unitary authority areas of North Lincolnshire and North East Lincolnshire.

So with the remaining project confined to Cheshire, Greater Manchester, and South Yorkshire; there's not a lot of the North still benefitting after all of these cutbacks (assuming that all of the rumours turn out true).

Originally HS2 was supposed to run directly to Leeds with upgrades to the line to York, thus benefitting Newcastle too. It was also supposed to directly link Wigan and so speed up the trains to Preston, Lancaster and Scotland - rumour has it that this section has been cut back to Crewe so while there will still be improvements in journey times to Scotland, they won't be as good as originally planned and therefore won't do as much to compete against air travel. Then HSN was planned to provide a faster line with more capacity between Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and beyond which would also have given Liverpool direct HS2 trains. Beat in mind that many freight trains across the Pennines have to go via the Midlands or Carlisle because there isn't enough capacity on more direct routes.

COP26, what COP26? It's almost as if the government doesn't care about the environment and wants people to continue to fly and get stuck in traffic jams instead.

I'm in Cumbria and I can't support this idea of a Northern Assembly as I believe that will just focus money into Manchester/Liverpool.

I just think to myself life could be worse. I could live in Manchester, Liverpool or London!

The north is always north England. It’s never ever meant to be Scotland. You’d even hear the North and Scotland, because they’re two different things.

@SickAndTiredAgain

Well YANBU to find the ignoring of other areas a problem. But I think generally speaking Manchester is widely considered to be in the North. The problem isn’t that Manchester is considered to be in the North, but that it’s almost seen as the entire North - in the sense that politicians seem to think “well this benefits Manchester, so it benefits The North so we’ve really done our bit there”

As someone who lives in the NE of England I agree with this.

The NW, particularly Greater Manchester, has done much better at organising themselves, lobbying and electing an effective mayor.

Improvements between Manchester and Leeds will have some knock on benefits to the NE, but they’re more likely to increase inward investment and the competitiveness of Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire at the expense of the NE because we’re still stuck with the lack of capacity on the East Coast Mainline which constrains all attempts to improve things.

What do you expect from a Government that hardly knows what goes on outside of the M25?

Johnson confused Edinburgh with Glasgow at COP26 - Nov 2021
Sunak thought he was in “world famous Burnley market” when he was in fact in Bury. – Oct 2021
Raab struggled to find Dover and didn’t understand why 10,000 trucks a day passing through the area was vital to UK-EU trade.

@Havanananana

What do you expect from a Government that hardly knows what goes on outside of the M25?

Johnson confused Edinburgh with Glasgow at COP26 - Nov 2021
Sunak thought he was in “world famous Burnley market” when he was in fact in Bury. – Oct 2021
Raab struggled to find Dover and didn’t understand why 10,000 trucks a day passing through the area was vital to UK-EU trade.

It's like Game of Thrones, I think. The M25 is 'the wall' (as anyone who's ever been stuck on it will testify) and beyond that it's basically just wildlings.

I think there is 'London' and the rest. Parts of 'the South' are equally as deprived as parts of 'the North' and of course parts of 'London' are equally deprived. 'Levelling up' does not and should not mean seeking equality between regions. It should mean a more even distribution of wealth and the end to poverty in all areas. However, the government would be loathe to spit out those sentiments because people would accuse them of treading on Labour's turf.

To clarify - that's how I think the government sees it!!! NOT how I see it.

WFH might be a blessing in disguise for the north as southerners flock northwards. The downside of this though is you can expect to see massive house price increases

@JollyJoon

WFH might be a blessing in disguise for the north as southerners flock northwards. The downside of this though is you can expect to see massive house price increases

How would being overrun by Southern refugees be a blessing? Are they bringing their organic free range Quinoa?

Try living in the West Country if you want to feel ‘ignored’

I remember one Covid briefing where all the region stats appeared apart from ours 😂

@itchypoopark

I think there is 'London' and the rest. Parts of 'the South' are equally as deprived as parts of 'the North' and of course parts of 'London' are equally deprived. 'Levelling up' does not and should not mean seeking equality between regions. It should mean a more even distribution of wealth and the end to poverty in all areas. However, the government would be loathe to spit out those sentiments because people would accuse them of treading on Labour's turf.

The West Country is more deprived than the North. Fact:

I live in the midlands. Family from London consider us to live in the North… I consider the North, Yorkshire and upward. I actually love the North.

Good re HS2 I used to live near Leeds London is so easy to get to on the train (2hrs), we used to go on a Saturday for lunch and drinks and come back in the evening it doesn't need HS2. What is needed is better transport systems in and 'The North' It was far easier for me to get to London by train than it was to get to Manchster which I ridiculous.

And no the politicians don't have a clue, I watched PMQ yesterday when they were talking about this and Bortis mentioned a load of random places but never once mentioned Yorkshire, the biggest county in the North nor did he mention anywhere further north than Leeds!

North of Watford means the Watford Gap. Once we pass this on holiday I feel I have arrived in 'the north'.

.... which is a bit unfair as it's only the Midlands, more like the end of the 'south' really.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

Its simple.

Theres the South South. Like Cornwall and Devon. Where no one lives but people holiday.

Then there's the South.. London and surrounding counties where People Live

Then there's the Country... the home counties, Norfolk etc where you have your Second Home.

Then there's the Midlands. Mills, mines etc.

Yorkshire. A country in its own right.

Finally The North. Think there's dragons?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

To me Manchester is south as I live further up north. Kinda gives me the rage when I hear people talking about ‘up north’ and it’s actually nowhere near me, it’s 150 miles further down south 😡😂

The North is just an England-centric term it dismisses as irrelevant the rest of the UK

If the said The North of England, I'd have no problem

It's the fact that the default is England and not the UK.

For me, the North is Inverness and above

Most people I've met and worked with in London regard the North as Islington, expect you to have intimate knowledge of the "village" (FFS) in London they reside in and have no idea there actually is anywhere else in the UK.

Ahhhh all the professional northerners have showed up 😆

My mate from Yorkshire used to say its when the M1 becomes cobbled.

I live in the Midlands but am from the South, where I live on the edge of the Peak District feels sort of on the cusp.