to be alarmed by vaccine passports

[Loustew12]

Am I the only person who find the proposed extension of this alarming, given what's happening in Austria, where police are out checking the unvaccinated are hiding among the vaccinated? Gibraltar has 100% vaccination rate and cases are through the roof. So clearly being vaccinated doesn't 'stop the spread'. Therefore, there is no logical or justification for segregating society. It's surely a slippery slope to go down?

I don't believe the state should have any power over who I mingle with and where. I don't believe the state should have the power to exclude people from society based on their decision. And I dont have a problem with unvaccinated people. I dont see them as a greater threat to me and I don't worry about them putting themselves in danger

It's not just about you though is it? There are people who, for medical reasons, can't be vaccinated. There are many people with compromised immune systems. Are they all to remain behind closed doors forever, just because some people find it so difficult to show a vaccine passport

Well there is that side of the coin, others would argue that vaccines might be causing antibody dependent enhancement in some people and those people are actually experiencing more severe symptoms as a result of vaccination. Who knows? You almost can’t trust data on either side of the argument anymore because all of it is manipulated to better represent whichever point you are trying to prove. I saw some stats on mainstream media earlier today quoting Chris Witty. He said that of the 235 pregnant women admitted to icu between 1st Feb and 30th September, 232 were not vaccinated - 98%. Wow, what a high number and what proof that unvaccinated pregnant woman are taking up beds. But then of course most pregnant woman wouldn’t have been eligible for the vaccine in February and they only had a bigger push for vaccinating pregnant women in August so that leaves just one month of data to start taking about real unvaccinated numbers.
And some on here wonder why lots of us are not entirely convinced about the argument and promises we are being sold!

Did you have to disclose your yellow fever vaccination status to go into a shop?

Can you link to anything which suggests you will need to disclose your Covid vaccination status to go into a shop?

@RockingMyFiftiesNot

Did you have to disclose your yellow fever vaccination status to go into a shop?

Can you link to anything which suggests you will need to disclose your Covid vaccination status to go into a shop?

Someone upthread says that you have to disclose it to go into smaller shops in Estonia.

@Viviennemary

Bring it on. We've had the mask avoiders. Now its the vaccine avoiders.

There's a massive difference. Mask avoiders are just idiots (if not genuinely exempt). Nobody has died from wearing a mask.

People have died from having the vaccine.

@Worldgonecrazy

Having the vaccine reduces the chance of hospitalisation and serious illness.

So does not being fat.

One makes money for pharmaceutical and health industries.

One doesn’t. One also has long term additional benefits for the NHS.

Amazing that only one method is being promoted.

If, instead of vaccine passports, we had BMI passports there would be an outcry. And before someone points out BMI measurements aren’t perfect measurements of fitness, I would point out that vaccination status is not a perfect measure of either immunity or contagious status.

Yes, absolutely this!

@gwenneh

If you want to participate in public life, then you have to take part in public health measures. Whether you agree with the measures or not, and whether they benefit you as an individual or not, makes no difference.

This argument might hold water if vaccines were 100% safe, and 100% effective. They are neither.

Completely agree with lostinacloud
This thread shows most people have zero understanding of respiratory viruses and zero understanding of mRNA technology that there’s no point arguing at all.
It’s a truly sad state of affairs that people are prepared to accept these this so easily. Utterly depressing

There's a massive difference. Mask avoiders are just idiots (if not genuinely exempt). Nobody has died from wearing a mask.

I’d switch that. Masks maybe lower cases not by much, vaccine reduces risk of death and hospitalisation.

I know which I’d choose to have available.

YANBU

Meanwhile the rest of the world has been using ID cards and fingerprint type identifiers for years. I thought the only people who would be alarmed would be the stupid sixth form common room types who think the entire world should exist under their little socialist model.

@millymolls

Completely agree with lostinacloud This thread shows most people have zero understanding of respiratory viruses and zero understanding of mRNA technology that there’s no point arguing at all. It’s a truly sad state of affairs that people are prepared to accept these this so easily. Utterly depressing

Luckily for you that you’ve got YouTube, eh?

[quote PAFMO]@Jammydodge2
Not linking to your post because I've reported it, but why are you as a "fully vaccinated frontline nurse" against vaccine passes, ergo against vaccines?[/quote]
People can be pro vaccine but against vaccine passports

Is it really that hard to grasp?

Quite a few countries require a covid pass for shopping - most of them currently accept recent test as an alternative, however that is being limited now in the countries that are growing the most.

If you search for 2g 3g covid, you can read lots of English language European papers on the different covid passes, lots are moving to covid passes not accepting tests (incidently this is actually modelled to prevent the unvaccinated negative test people from catching the virus from the vaccinated positive people and then spread it onwards) the countries which require covid passes for essential shopping is less though (Cyprus, Estonia I'm pretty sure.)

Sadly there isn't a good source for restrictions everywhere, especially as like in the UK they're often highly regional even within a country.

@Lostinacloud Well there is that side of the coin, others would argue that vaccines might be causing antibody dependent enhancement in some people and those people are actually experiencing more severe symptoms as a result of vaccination. Who knows?

So true. I mean maybe the vaccinated people in ICU grew another set of lungs from having the vaccine an that’s why their covid symptoms are so much worse. Who knows!!! We just can’t trust actual data.

Someone upthread says that you have to disclose it to go into smaller shops in Estonia.

Fair enough but I don't think this thread is mainly about shopping in Estonia?

an idea of pure evil.
there is no scientific or clinical argument for passports.
yesterday's conpiracies pretty much came true.

Well there is that side of the coin, others would argue that vaccines might be causing antibody dependent enhancement in some people and those people are actually experiencing more severe symptoms as a result of vaccination. Who knows?

All the data from dozens and dozens of countries that show vaccines massively reduce the risk of vaccines and death.

You almost can’t trust data on either side of the argument anymore because all of it is manipulated to better represent whichever point you are trying to prove.

Which figures on hospitalisation and death do you think are being manipulated?

Why aren’t they also manipulating the data on cases to fit a narrative?

@CatsArePeople

an idea of pure evil. there is no scientific or clinical argument for passports. yesterday's conpiracies pretty much came true.

No it isn’t. Yes there are. No they haven’t.

Happy to help.

others would argue that vaccines might be causing antibody dependent enhancement in some people and those people are actually experiencing more severe symptoms as a result of vaccination. Who knows?

Well, they could argue it, but they'd sound pretty stupid in the face of the much lower death statistics since the vaccine came out.

What do you think is happening to cause higher cases in Ireland v U.K.?

@MarshaBradyo I read an interesting article by Tom Whipple in the Times this week where scientists were suggesting that we are ahead of much of Europe on this wave, which could be the ‘waning’ wave. We vaccinated earlier and faster and so waning hit us sooner. We also let delta in at much higher levels much earlier than some of our neighbours, so over the summer waning hit delta and we got the summer wave and cases have bumped along at a fairly high level ever since.

Other countries saw Delta rise later, and their vaccine waning started later and has hit at the same time as colder weather sending everyone indoors.

The rate of testing also creates real changes in how data looks on a graph. We test 2-3 more times than Ireland and at least 6 times more than Germany. Our positivity rate is around 4%. Ireland’s is around 13, Germany’s is currently 16%. Much lower testing levels will probably look a lot spikier on a graph. It seems likely that actual case levels in both countries are much higher than the tests indicate.

Thatsthewayitis I really think you need to take a break from posting as I'm sure you don't mean to be so rude, condescending and entirely intolerant of any other opinions?

It’s almost like we’re in a once in a century pandemic and no one has a fucking clue what they’re doing but they are hoping to reduce those suffering long term health issues or death

Yes I recently spoke to someone who lives there are she said the police are horrified at what they are being asked to do and have joined the protests. Which is great to hear obviously but alarming that this is even a thing isn't it?!

This makes a lot of sense