to be alarmed by vaccine passports

[Loustew12]

Am I the only person who find the proposed extension of this alarming, given what's happening in Austria, where police are out checking the unvaccinated are hiding among the vaccinated? Gibraltar has 100% vaccination rate and cases are through the roof. So clearly being vaccinated doesn't 'stop the spread'. Therefore, there is no logical or justification for segregating society. It's surely a slippery slope to go down?

If you want to participate in public life, then you have to take part in public health measures. Whether you agree with the measures or not, and whether they benefit you as an individual or not, makes no difference.

We don’t have measles vaccination passports, HIV negative passports, STI free passports

Irrelevant since the vast majority of people living with HIV in the UK are unable to pass it on due to being on effective medication.

STI passports would be similarly pointless, as given window periods any test done is only good for a general timeframe of about 3 months previous.

These are victims of persecution and holocaust @Annoymouser2. Not quite the same is it?

*Well not driving massively decreases death rates but the solution isnt to ban cars as that would be ridiculous because people rely on them.

Being vaccinated massively decreases death rates but the solution isnt to ban access to society for people as they rely on it.

I dont see the difference.*

There isn't a difference. People CAN'T drive if they don't have a license! And getting a driver's license requires training and passing a test - which costs them time and money. And people with certain medical conditions and disabilities may be unable to get a driver's license for no fault of their own.

Requiring vaccination before travel or attending certain events is probably LESS restrictive than requiring a driving license before you can drive.

The only real difference is that almost no one thinks that they should be able to drive without a license, while some people do think that they should be able to go anywhere risking infecting people, without doing what they can do reduce the risks.

@gwenneh

If you want to participate in public life, then you have to take part in public health measures. Whether you agree with the measures or not, and whether they benefit you as an individual or not, makes no difference.

Totally agree. I'm not alarmed at all.

Am struggling to understand the comment re HIV and STD passports.... as far as I know you can't catch those from sitting next to someone on a flight, or by drinking/dancing next to them in a club.

Re measles, although vaccination rates are falling, they are still incredibly high. So measles is no longer as 'out there' in the same way as COVID,

I am in France, we’ve had vaccine passports since 23rd July and I am here to politely inform you that their introduction does fuck all to give you back your freedom and normal life!

My DC from age 6 upwards still sit in masks all day at school, there are masks for everywhere indoors and covid tests cost most people about £20 per test. If you don’t have the pass you can’t even leave the country without an essential reason.
The daily news is full of headlines about 5th waves and mass boostering. No sign of an end to the passport as they just passed a law extending its use to at least the end of July 2022. No sign of the promised payback of unmasking our poor kids or letting us get on with our lives without the threat of non entry to everyday tasks or further lockdowns and closures/curfews.

So, let’s just recap….the government brought the passports in so that more would be vaccinated and we could avoid any further lockdowns and get back to some kind of normal life. Just over 3 months later, over 76% of over 12’s are vaccinated and yet restrictions are tightening up again and the passports are threatened to be switched off if you don’t comply and get the booster.

The only thing that vaccine passports do is lock you into an unofficial one sided contract with your government to ensure that you agree from now on to get a vaccine every 6 months. Break the “contract” and you get even less freedom and normality than apparently we have earned up to now by doing what they have already asked us to do.

Seriously, they do nothing, they are discriminatory, make no scientific sense and contribute to more loss of personal freedom than bloody lockdowns!

SAY NO while you still have the chance.

@MistyFrequencies

I'm worried about this too. FWIW I'm fully vaccinnated. I just don't know what the answer is.

The issue is how long will you be deemed to be fully vaccinated?

@Lostinacloud
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I would argue that fatness is a wider risk factor than whether someone is vaccinated or not

Define risk. Yes, it's a greater risk to the fat person, but no-one else will catch that risk from them just by virtue of being near them. By contrast, having covid may be a relatively small risk to the individual, but there is a greater risk of passing it on if you are unvaccinated and you then potentially impose a massive risk on others.

I'm in Italy and am here to tell you we've had vaccine passes since 1st July. I'm here to tell you that where our schools were closed, they're now open, almost all our 12+ kids are double vaxxed, so in classes where everyone is vaccinated, they don't need to wear masks.
Nightclubs are open, with no restrictions on numbers, same with theatres and public transport etc.
Restrictions may need to be tightened up again, 66% of Italians are in favour of the passes, 18% don't care one way or the other.
Booster rollout is underway, so all regions staying "white" for now.
Cases are rising, but not giving cause for concern nationally.
S'all good.

In france you cant even take a train without a pass. Do you think it's normal that an abused woman, say, would not be able to leave her home and get on a train to stay with a member of her family, because she doesnt have the pass?

What about a man who is prevented from visiting his fathers death bed?

Or what about a minor from a neglectful household who can no longer get on a bus to school?

Or an immigrant who just wants to go home but cant get on a plane back?

Because this is what we are talking about here. It's not all about who is allowed to go out for cocktails, and how you feel so much safer sitting at the bar with other people like you.

Schools haven’t been closed in France since May 2020 @Geamhradh apart from one week only in March this year.
You have the green pass and I know from other threads that you are a fan but where’s your normal life? Still masked up inside, showing your pass every time you want to go out to eat and threatened with further restrictions once winter sets in.

YANBU, it is alarming.
It is all very well saying it is not an issue and should just be tolerated, because that seems to come from people who happily skipped to the vaccine centre and virtue signalled all over FB that they were jabbed.
For some, there is a huge mental barrier in the way that is stopping them getting the vaccine, and this talk of vaccine passports etc is frightening as hell. That mental barrier wont drop away because there is a threat that the life you took for granted is getting restricted.
Yeah, great if you are ok with getting the vaccine now. Next time, it could be something you struggle with.

@Lostinacloud

Schools haven’t been closed in France since May 2020 *@Geamhradh* apart from one week only in March this year. You have the green pass and I know from other threads that you are a fan but where’s your normal life? Still masked up inside, showing your pass every time you want to go out to eat and threatened with further restrictions once winter sets in.

I didn't say schools had been closed in France, did I? But they WERE closed here, for 18 months. The vaccine + green pass means they now don't have to be. If wearing a paper mask and showing a QR code keeps them (and businesses etc) open, then great. It's no hardship. Italy will keep its restrictions tighter than many other countries for longer I imagine. The price was too high in March 2020 to ever think of letting it happen again, even on a much smaller scale. And the price we pay now (QR code and a mask) is not too high for that.

I don’t feel that strongly as I’m double vaccinated and will get booster when available

But I understand why people don’t want to go down that road and why they feel strongly about it.

I’ve been looking at vaccination rates / Covid passes and some countries seem to still have higher cases than us - eg Ireland which is interesting as they are both high on vaccination / passes and case rates

Yeah what's going on with Ireland? Why is it such a shit show over there?

This is the chart and map

The dark green countries still feature in the sharp incline higher rates which I found interesting

It’s not the green pass that’s allowing schools to be open though @Geamhradh, it’s the italien government, who could have looked at the science and opened schools long ago. It’s not the unvaccinated, it’s not the vaccine passports yet to be put into place or in full swing, who aren’t returning people’s normal lives, it’s the governments. And you want to give them even more direct control by locking you into a contract controlling your own bodily autonomy?

What exactly is their function? They don’t stop spread or fears of saturated hospitals as we are just watching happen in Germany and Austria and Ireland, they don’t return life completely back to normal as promised, as we we are witnessing in many other countries of the world - still with masks and limits on entry to everyday places like libraries and gyms. What is their function? If the vaccine is required due to a person’s risk then there’s no need for coercion. And I thought we all left coercion for medical treatments back in 1945.

Had a visit recently from some friends who live in France. They were here visiting family who they haven't seen for 2 years. They were quite horrified that at the lack of mask wearing here in shops. They also have to show proof of vaccination when they go out to a restaurant in France. Not having given it much thought before, after they had gone I went and had a look at the infection figures. On the latest stats available for the same day the total in France was just over 9,000, in the UK it was nearly 45,000. Now I know they are not so tightly crammed in in France but this is quite a difference for two countries with a similar population.

@Lostinacloud
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Why can’t people see this 🤷🏻‍♀️

@ConcernedAuntie

But that's because theres practically no testing in France whereas everyone I know in the UK seems to have boxes of lateral flow tests at the ready. Go and look up testing rates and get back to me.

It’s true @JollyJoon, the news said today that tests have dropped by 60% since they became payable as well.
School kids don’t test and to be honest I don’t know anyone who’s tested themselves or their families for months because it’s just not on anybody’s mind anymore to do that. I get the sense that most of the fear of covid is gone and so even if people suspect they may have it, they still don’t generally test or stop going to school or work.

Unvaccinated are more likely to catch covid. Unvaccinated are more likely to spread covid. Unvaccinated are more likely to end up in ICU

You are more likely to catch covid in a crowded indoor setting.

As unvaccinated people have zero interest in protecting themselves or reducing spread to others quite simply not letting them in reduces risk for them and for others.

It’s quite simple.

Also Ireland have had covid passes in place since came out of lockdown. You cant say the passes aren’t working because cases are going up. It’s likely cases would be even higher without the pass in place so it’s a stupid argument to say they’re not doing anything.

But then the anti vaxxers love to make up their own ‘alternative facts’ rather than use logic.

@Thatsthewaytis

Unvaccinated are more likely to catch covid. Unvaccinated are more likely to spread covid. Unvaccinated are more likely to end up in ICU

You are more likely to catch covid in a crowded indoor setting.

As unvaccinated people have zero interest in protecting themselves or reducing spread to others quite simply not letting them in reduces risk for them and for others.

It’s quite simple.

Also Ireland have had covid passes in place since came out of lockdown. You cant say the passes aren’t working because cases are going up. It’s likely cases would be even higher without the pass in place so it’s a stupid argument to say they’re not doing anything.

But then the anti vaxxers love to make up their own ‘alternative facts’ rather than use logic.

As I said I’m pro vaccine but no it’s not stupid to look at what’s happening in countries with passes and high cases. It’s silly to be aggressive if some one does.

What do you think is happening to cause higher cases in Ireland v U.K.?