to be alarmed by vaccine passports

[Loustew12]

Am I the only person who find the proposed extension of this alarming, given what's happening in Austria, where police are out checking the unvaccinated are hiding among the vaccinated? Gibraltar has 100% vaccination rate and cases are through the roof. So clearly being vaccinated doesn't 'stop the spread'. Therefore, there is no logical or justification for segregating society. It's surely a slippery slope to go down?

Which is why I can accept them for large indoor events where you have several thousand people in a confined space. But not for a casual meal or coffee or swim or visit to a museum.

Well, it is the large indoor events for which they may be required! Unless we get back in lockdown, (because of superspreader events!), they won't be required just to get a coffee.

@ddl1

I therefore don't accept your argument that it is the unvaccinated selfishly keeping them at home. It is a horrible and cruel side-effect of the virus itself. To stay safe I mitigate my risks as much as possible by avoiding crowds, staying outside as much as I can and keeping a safe-distance from others. I would imagine other vulnerable people are probably doing the same?

OK, fair enough. I am really arguing with people who have some sort of ideological objection to vaccination conditions under any circumstances. Most vulnerable people won't be attending crowded events. But they may have no alternative to seeking medical care; and there are some people who object to expecting healthcare workers to be vaccinated, and that's my biggest concern.

The main reason for vaccine passports is to reduce the chances of 'superspreader events' causing massive spikes in transmission. I think that in itself is sufficient reason, but can see that some people may not.

But you should include or negative test for any event

Plus how many superspreader events does the average person go to? And what age range are they typically?

You can still go to work or school in Austria so that is where spread will occur

A medical setting is slightly different and I’m still not sure it should be compulsory

For example you have a nightclub full of twenty year olds. At this point most have had Covid maybe they should just be allowed to go

But you should include or negative test for any event

I think this is misunderstanding the reason for unvaccinated to be kept out of events - it's not that they might bring in the virus, it's that they are more likely to become infected from the vaccinated who have not had to test.

If it's genuinely about preventing spread (and not coercion) then it would be a test for everyone upon entry as the way to ensure the event doesn't increase the spread.

Maybe some people won’t think or care about the discrimination problem that vaccine passports bring about until it affects them?

Think about this as an example of what’s going on in France already; just so a teen can go on a school trip to a museum, if not vaccinated, a 25 euro covid test is required. Due to ongoing research and an evolving situation regarding the safety of double vaccinating teens with mRNA vaccines, some parents understandably want to wait before making any final decision.
However, as a result of that wish to have a choice, the whole family can’t easily go out to eat out or go on a day out and the teen can’t go to any sports clubs or scouts groups or meet ups with friends at a cinema without having to be taken for an incredibly uncomfortable nasal test, adding an additional cost of 25 euros. If France follow the example of other European countries, soon there could be the “2g” system where only vaccination or covid recovery counts, no negative test accepted. Doesn’t matter if both parents are vaccinated or that the teen is perfectly healthy or had covid before and suffered no ill effects. They are effectively discriminated against and as a side effect so are their whole family just because of a medical choice. A medical choice that doesn’t stop a vaccinated person’s vaccine from working and a medical choice that may be perfectly reasonable to have made based on risk to benefit.

you cannot force people to undergo something that could kill them, and covid vaccines HAVE killed people.

This^

@SamosaSammy

Yes it's a slippery slope more focused on control imo.

If vaccine passports are the new norm it's only a matter of time before the vaccine passport becomes a more generalised freedom passport which could have all kinds of other data or conditions linked to it.

I think this is my fear. It becomes the norm to have access to certain things based on passports/credits that has nothing to do with COVID. It's looking more likely now.

What has killed more people, the vaccine itself, or the strain the unvaccinated are putting on the NHS?

But the British health system doesn’t work like that and rightly so!
Health care workers and hospitals never discriminated between patients before based upon the reason they’d ended up in hospital or taking up an icu bed. It’s the fact this appears to have become ok for people to accept if the patient has covid that’s so scary and is what many of us are trying to illustrate.
A drug taker can choose not to take the drug, why should they have an icu bed? Get it yet?

@nojudgementhere

*PAFMO

The irony of someone likening showing a QR code so that they don't risk, y'know, infecting somebody else with something that might kill them to the Holocaust and then having the balls to say it's others doing the name-calling....

I agree. Utterly bizarre.*

You have both spectacularly missed the point here - as I would imagine you realise. People are not complaining about showing a QR code. They are complaining about a whole section of society being shut out of normal life, ridiculed and mistreated for refusing to take a vaccine that they don't feel ready to, and for insisting that they have autonomy over their own bodies. You can downplay it all you like but I would find it hard to think of myself as a decent person if I supported this.

Perhaps you should change your username.

I've no time for people who compare vaccine passport restrictions to the Holocaust.

What has killed more people, the vaccine itself, or the strain the unvaccinated are putting on the NHS?

So now its a competition? Or a Russian roulette? what will kill you first?

Sorry, that isn't very reasurring.

Maybe we could create an app you have to scan whenever you order a drink. When a person orders their fourth drink in a 24h period they will be locked out of ordering anymore in any bar across the country. That way we can keep A&E freed up from having to handle drink related cases, we can eradicate drink driving and make sure people stay healthy and safe.

But it’s so simple and effective to get the vaccine. It’s a simple measure. It’s safe. You can’t really compare it to a drug addict taking an overdose fgs!

@Cheerychirpy

But it’s so simple and effective to get the vaccine. It’s a simple measure. It’s safe. You can’t really compare it to a drug addict taking an overdose fgs!

It really isn't so simple for some people.

But it’s so simple and effective to get the vaccine. It’s a simple measure. It’s safe. You can’t really compare it to a drug addict taking an overdose fgs!

it's nothing simple when death is listed as side effect. So what if other people inject heroin for the fun of it? I don't.

@Cheerychirpy

But it’s so simple and effective to get the vaccine. It’s a simple measure. It’s safe. You can’t really compare it to a drug addict taking an overdose fgs!

This is very blinkered thinking.

It's not safe for everyone. I won't spell it out for you. Think. Independently. Who might it not be safe for?

It's also not simple just to get the vaccine for everyone. Again. Think . Independently. Who might it not be so easy for?

Is it effective? Is it a simple measure? What does simple measure even mean?

I don’t know. Tell me who it might not be safe for? If it’s not safe for people with certain medical conditions then they ought to get a vaccine passport waiver issued by the hospital consultant they see. That must be a very very small number of people.

You need to work it out for yourself Cheery.

If it’s not safe for people with certain medical conditions then they ought to get a vaccine passport waiver issued by the hospital consultant they see.

This bit you did come up with yourself. Well done. It isn't easy to get a vaccine passport waiver though. A poster on a different thread (they may be here now) said they had a waiver from their consultant but their government (I think it was Scotland) won't accept it as exemption from the passports.

For others they may have allergic reactions/bad reactions to medicine that make them susceptible and therefore want to avoid these vaccines - but that won't provide them a waiver either.

There are plenty of others in society who will want to avoid these vaccines for all number of reasons - it may not be so simple for them either. Try and think of some other reasons.

I find it so upsetting that there are actually people out there that think passports are a good idea. Our ancestors would be turning in their grave ! Have people actually forgot what hitler done? How all those people lost their freedom to work eat sleep or simply walk where they wanted ! It’s sick to the core and the masses of people that comply and play along with this tyranny are as equal to blame as the government ( who btw couldn’t give a dogs dump about your health )

Here in the Republic of Ireland, 7% of the population (the unvaccinated) are taking up 56% of ICU beds with Covid.
A tiny proportion of that 7% are people who weren't medically viable for vaccination but it's becoming increasingly difficult to have sympathy with those who couldn't be arsed.

I don’t have to think of other reasons.

NHS website states that there are very few cases of people who have had very severe allergic reactions to vaccines in the past that Covid vaccines may not be suitable for. So what’s the excuse the rest of the anti vaccine population are giving?

There are very few valid ones. Being scared of needles, feeling faint after getting a tetanus injection once back in 1983, having an IQ too low to be able to tell the difference between anti vaccines conspiracy nut cases and proven government scientific advice are all not (thankfully) valid reasons.

Have people actually forgot what hitler done?

There’s no hope for some people

@Cheerychirpy

I don’t have to think of other reasons.

NHS website states that there are very few cases of people who have had very severe allergic reactions to vaccines in the past that Covid vaccines may not be suitable for. So what’s the excuse the rest of the anti vaccine population are giving?

There are very few valid ones. Being scared of needles, feeling faint after getting a tetanus injection once back in 1983, having an IQ too low to be able to tell the difference between anti vaccines conspiracy nut cases and proven government scientific advice are all not (thankfully) valid reasons.

Please do not underestimate how severe a needle phobia can be. It is not just "being scared".

Have people actually forgot what hitler done? How all those people lost their freedom to work eat sleep or simply walk where they wanted !

Please stop these offensive comparisons between the planned, systematic persecution of Jews, other races and other disadvantaged groups by the Nazi regime with time-limited public health measures.

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the latter - go ahead and have that debate, but don’t forget to include all the western democracies who currently restrict access to childcare, education and some employment based on vaccination status - it is in no way comparable to the former. Doing so diminishes the enormity of that persecution, ignores the basis of it, is ignorant of the surrounding context and history behind it, and actively benefits modern anti-semites. As has been explained repeatedly on this thread and others.