Ex dictating holiday dates - AIBU?

[GetSetJetSet]

Name changed as would prefer this post to be anonymous.

Curious to get other people's views on my current situation and what they'd do if they were me.

Separated from ex 5yrs ago. Do not have a good co-parenting relationship. Share one primary school aged child and communication is mainly through email.
Been through court for child contact and have had an order in place for 4yrs.

Court order states contact during school holidays is to be agreed at least 3months in advance. Ex has our child for 2 weeks during the summer holidays.

I've had an email telling me he's booked a week next summer abroad and that he hopes it's ok as it's the only time he can get a decent priced holiday and he wants our child to enjoy a summer holiday. Sounds reasonable enough but it's during the time I've always taken our little one away on holiday - historically he's always had the back end of the summer holidays for contact and I've had the beginning, and I usually have to remind him I need his dates so I can arrange childcare etc.

AIBU to say no, on the basis that he hasn't adhered to the court order? He hasn't agreed the dates with me before booking his holiday and actually our child will be enjoying a summer holiday with me across the same dates?

@FreakinFrankNFurter

He's messaging you 8/9 months before! Can't you take the end instead of beginning of summer hols next year? It sounds like you're being awkward for the sake of it

This. Unless you’ve already booked something I would totally let it go. He’s giving you months and months of notice. Be the bigger person and be pleased he’s taking his child away.

Who took who to court regarding access/etc.
That would inform my opinion.
If he took you to court to see his children and was only awarded eow and some holidays but wanted more then yabu to say 'there's a court order that must be adhered to'. Kids need their fathers. I hate that 'this is the order and you'll get no more' nonsense.

If you had to take him to court (would that even happen?) Then you're kess unreasonable if he's doing things deliberately to ruin plans etc.
But in all honesty, it's months in advance and you've not booked anything so I'd not care.

He's giving you plenty of notice about his plans, and maybe it would be nice for him to have your son at this time. Despite you not having a great parenting relationship (sorry about that), it does sound like he's trying to be communicative about what he hopes to do with your child. :)

'Sure no problem, thanks for the early notice, I'd like to take her away those dates the following year, so I'll pencil those dates for 2023 😁.'

@UltimateBugKilla

'Sure no problem, thanks for the early notice, I'd like to take her away those dates the following year, so I'll pencil those dates for 2023 😁.'

Well yes do this?

I wouldn't lie and say you have something booked if you don't.
Surely if he tries to fight it in court at some point he'd have paperwork saying something was booked on X date, you was informed Y date and then you proceeded to book something on Z date. And would therefore end up making you look deliberately difficult.

In your case I wouldnt let him feel that he has 'won' or has control. I'd be telling him that date really suits and works out better for you etc. It will take some of the power he thinks he has away.
I do understand its jarring and that you feel it's always you compromising though.

I agree with this. I think the trouble with responses on this thread is that, on the surface, it sounds like a really minor issue but you have the entire back story and drip drip of his control and bullying.

I would decide whether you will agree and then act super happy and like it suits you (through gritted teeth if needs be!). If something is a big problem to you, I think you'll need to go back to court or say no like you did with the Christmas hol. I think if you tell someone like this man, "oh OK just this once but please don't do this again", it probably just feeds into his need for control.

@Elodeastar

He's giving you plenty of notice about his plans, and maybe it would be nice for him to have your son at this time. Despite you not having a great parenting relationship (sorry about that), it does sound like he's trying to be communicative about what he hopes to do with your child. :)

Sorry, I said 'son' there, I realise you didn't specify the sex of your child, sorry (I managed to use 'child' in the second sentence). :)

@oopsinamechangedagain2021

Can you reply with something like, 'That sounds great, I actually was going to ask you if you wanted DC that week as I was hoping to make plans for something.'

If he's trying to be controlling, he will probably change his mind!!

Don't lie, it's game playing and there is no need.

I think it's great that he is booking a holiday to take your child away. Your child sounds like he gets treated amazing from you and his dad.

The bigger picture here is your son having great memories and never missing out.

I would agree to this holiday but remind him to confirm dates with you prior to booking, out of respect and so he doesn't risk any financial loss. (Sounds nice but it's a warning really if he does it again)

Why would be alright for OP to have booked something already for those dates? That would not be complying with the court order either if holidays need to be agreed.

OP I'm sorry he was such a bastard to you while you were married and I definitely believe you, however I don't think he is failing to comply with the court order here. He is asking if you agree to these dates well outside the 3 month period.

You can disagree, he can cancel the holiday. But on this occasion you don't have a good reason and your child will be the one losing out. You also have plenty of time to plan a lovely holiday for later in the summer.

YABU obviously - he’s has given you at least 3 months and you haven’t already had a holiday booked.

However he should have double checked with you first incase you had already booked something.
I’m not sure if he was being controlling or not in this scenario but I absolutely understand that when people are controlling they do small things like this to maintain their control.

The best thing you can do is text back and say “yes that’s absolutely fine and it sounds great” so if he has done it to be a dick then you are not giving him that power by acting like it bothers you.

If he was genuinely trying to show that he had changed his ways, he would've messaged the OP before he booked anything, well in advance, to ask if a change to the usual dates would be ok.

Of course he's doing a power play here- and, to boot, successfully getting people to say how wonderful he's being (because as sure as eggs is eggs, he'll be telling those around him how awful the OP is for not immediately agreeing to his plans).

It's a shitty move on his part, but OP, I agree with the idea of letting him know that it's perfectly FINE to take those dates next year. To try and stop him would only give him more ammunition ("See what a bitter woman she is! Aren't I such an AMAZING father!)

A small remark about how pleased you are that he's been so organised at last might be in order though.

I understand OP. My DH's ex is just like this. They have a legal agreement in place (and 50/50 custody) and she keeps testing the boundaries of the agreements in just small enough ways that DH feels like a jerk for insisting on the word of the agreements, so he lets it go. My DH spends a lot of time 'rising above/being the bigger person' etc etc. Which I agree with tbh. But it's incredibly frustrating as you don't know what the next request might be.

The truth is that the stronger the parenting boundaries in terms of visitation/financials, the easier life is. Clarity will help you both get to a more amicable place as when both parents know exactly when and what they can do, it minimises the chances of conflict as no parent is put in a position to be saying 'no' to the other.

In this instance I would send a written record of your allowing the trip, but remind him of your agreement and say this will be the only exception to that rule. Say you don't want him to lose any money so you will accommodate the request on this occasion, but moving forward you would politely request he respect the parenting agreement as you do. You might also want to agree how summer holidays work moving forward - perhaps alternate who has first/second half so he can't complain about prices.

x

This is a very difficult one but if i was in the situation l would email him back stating that it is okay THIS TIME but in future please check the dated with me prior to booking holidays.
Then stick to it

@GetSetJetSet for future maybe you and your ex should have set holiday periods. My friend has this with her ex and it makes everything far simpler. Only holidays they arrange themselves in Easter and Christmas but they alternate the actual festive days and at Xmas if the child is with mum Xmas day then with Dad Xmas eve. All in their court order. You could do 1st 2 weeks summer with you, then 2 with dad then 2 with you and could swap each year. No need for communication then and everyone free to make plans.

"Ex dictating holiday dates - AIBU"

He has given you notice for next year. It sounds like you are the one dictating holiday dates!!!!

Ooh I like @Geriatric1234's wording, maybe try that?

@notacooldad

In your case I wouldnt let him feel that he has 'won' or has control. I'd be telling him that date really suits and works out better for you etc. It will take some of the power he thinks he has away. I do understand its jarring and that you feel it's always you compromising though.

Totally agree with this. It's also really important that your child has the impression you are fully supportive of this holiday.

Thanks again everyone for all your replies. I've just caught up on the thread and it's given me lots to think about.

The point about my ex not breaking the court order has come up countless times and I really can't understand people's thinking around why this is us the case.
@RandomMess you hit the nail on the head with your comment at 08:51.

Look at it another way - we split Christmas and Easter holidays 50/50 and each have our child for 1wk.
Would I book a holiday then go to him and say "I've booked this, hope it's ok you can have the rest of the time?" No I wouldn't. I'd say "I'd like to have child on x dates and go away, do they work for you so I can book it?" And agree it between us like adults...and as we're supposed to going by the court order.

Given all the comments, would I be reasonable to go ahead and book a holiday for me and our child, before letting my ex know it's a done deal and he'll have to work round the dates I'd picked? I'd get slated for doing that too, I'm sure! But somehow for him it's ok.

Someone asked who took who to court. He filed first and took me to court for our first order.
I then filed for a variation a year later because his and his family's conduct during contact and handovers was completely unacceptable. The judge ruled in my favour.

I did try to encourage more contact at one point. He flat out refused. Our child is farmed out to his ex-wife during his contact time whilst he goes to work (contact is 70:30 me)
Even when he's missed contact through illness he doesn't attempt to make up the lost time despite me offering. And he's gone as far as asking me to remind him to ring when he misses the court ordered Skype calls.

I could go on, and on. He's not really that bothered about contact. It's all about portraying the "family man" image which many on here have fallen for but I know to not be the case.

@GetSetJetSet

Thanks again everyone for all your replies. I've just caught up on the thread and it's given me lots to think about.

The point about my ex not breaking the court order has come up countless times and I really can't understand people's thinking around why this is us the case.
@RandomMess you hit the nail on the head with your comment at 08:51.

Look at it another way - we split Christmas and Easter holidays 50/50 and each have our child for 1wk.
Would I book a holiday then go to him and say "I've booked this, hope it's ok you can have the rest of the time?" No I wouldn't. I'd say "I'd like to have child on x dates and go away, do they work for you so I can book it?" And agree it between us like adults...and as we're supposed to going by the court order.

Given all the comments, would I be reasonable to go ahead and book a holiday for me and our child, before letting my ex know it's a done deal and he'll have to work round the dates I'd picked? I'd get slated for doing that too, I'm sure! But somehow for him it's ok.

Someone asked who took who to court. He filed first and took me to court for our first order.
I then filed for a variation a year later because his and his family's conduct during contact and handovers was completely unacceptable. The judge ruled in my favour.

I did try to encourage more contact at one point. He flat out refused. Our child is farmed out to his ex-wife during his contact time whilst he goes to work (contact is 70:30 me)
Even when he's missed contact through illness he doesn't attempt to make up the lost time despite me offering. And he's gone as far as asking me to remind him to ring when he misses the court ordered Skype calls.

I could go on, and on. He's not really that bothered about contact. It's all about portraying the "family man" image which many on here have fallen for but I know to not be the case.

Then why bother posting? You think you're right. You evidently have superior knowledge on your ex and you clearly are not willing in any capacity to admit you're being absolutely ridiculous. So why are you here?

@Autumndays123 Your reply is ridiculous. And rude. As are many others on here which until now I've accepted as the whole point of me posting was to get views and opinions on my current situation.

I've taken on board all the feedback, and in future will bear it in mind when situations such as this arise again. Because I don't doubt they will.

Appreciate everyone taking the time to reply, this thread has given me what I wanted so I'm out

He hasn’t broken the court order because the court order says you need to agree 3 months in advance.

He’s asking you to agree to this date 3 months+ in advance.

He’s not insisting it has to be this - because he can’t.

But he’s saying he’s booked something so this is his preferred date.

You can still say no - so the court order isn’t broken.

But people are just saying regardless of history it isn’t worth saying no.

The court order doesn’t say - you must not book activities before agreeing dates. The booking is at his risk - you can ‘put your foot down’ as a point of principle and say no and deal with him being aggressively disappointed.

But it makes no practical difference to you to say yes.

You’re right to feel manipulated- it is a dick move.
But you’re not right it’s ‘broken the court order’.
If you need the court order to be more specific you need to go back and ask for that.

Good summary @nosquirrels

OP, I do understand how crap it must be. Hope you manage to sort a nice holiday for yourself too

YABU. He’s giving you plenty of notice.