Ex dictating holiday dates - AIBU?

[GetSetJetSet]

Name changed as would prefer this post to be anonymous.

Curious to get other people's views on my current situation and what they'd do if they were me.

Separated from ex 5yrs ago. Do not have a good co-parenting relationship. Share one primary school aged child and communication is mainly through email.
Been through court for child contact and have had an order in place for 4yrs.

Court order states contact during school holidays is to be agreed at least 3months in advance. Ex has our child for 2 weeks during the summer holidays.

I've had an email telling me he's booked a week next summer abroad and that he hopes it's ok as it's the only time he can get a decent priced holiday and he wants our child to enjoy a summer holiday. Sounds reasonable enough but it's during the time I've always taken our little one away on holiday - historically he's always had the back end of the summer holidays for contact and I've had the beginning, and I usually have to remind him I need his dates so I can arrange childcare etc.

AIBU to say no, on the basis that he hasn't adhered to the court order? He hasn't agreed the dates with me before booking his holiday and actually our child will be enjoying a summer holiday with me across the same dates?

@FreedomFaith that's not really his issue, nor is it a condition of the court order.

She can say no but who is she hurting if she does?

I'm a little confused about what the issue is here having read all your posts?

You seemed upset at first because you always prefer the beginning of the summer and holidays are cheaper then (and he has more money) so this is what you'd usually want.

Then when pointed out that you've had the cheaper end every year and perhaps one year it's ok to swap, you've said no, you have to chase him for his dates and are left with the beginning of the Summer. But these are your preferred dates, no?

You're cross as previous years you have to chase and chase for dates which is frustrating. This year he's given you loads of notice and you are saying this is controlling?

I don't doubt at all that there is a complex history here with him that is rooted in control and abuse, but on this occasion I think you'd be unreasonable to say no.

You've previously said you stopped a Christmas holiday and I think everyone would agree that was totally unreasonable of him to ask, but this seems like a non issue? Yes, he should have checked before booking but I think saying no purely as you suspect his motives are to exert control would be wrong.

A reply of something like: happy for you to take her but do remember next time to check before booking it as she may not always be free to go on those dates and you'd probably lose money if you had to cancel. Luckily this year she is able to go.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

Bet he doesn't even talk to his kid when he has them, probably just pawns them off on someone. Typical tosser loser father

That's a lot of projecting @FreedomFaith

A dad who is a typical tosser loser father for wanting to take his own child on holiday.

Oh come on, you've never heard of any parent ever thinking they can buy their kids love? Have a look on some of the threads on here, there's loads of them. Taking your child on holiday doesn't automatically make you a good parent, it means you have money to spend on a holiday, that's it. I rather doubt someone who is abusive to someone else is actually a good parent, they aren't even capable of being a good person.

[quote Getyourarseofffthequattro]@FreedomFaith that's not really his issue, nor is it a condition of the court order.

She can say no but who is she hurting if she does?[/quote]
Fair enough, maybe she should let the child decide, if they are old enough to make that kind of choice? Don't remember seeing an age of the child, but maybe they can choose which holiday they'd prefer?

He's clearly doing it to get her to be under his control again

I am highly supportive of women in controlling relationships but this isn't about control.

At the worse he has been annoying to book her "usual" week BUT op doesn't have the right to a week over summer. She is over reacting on this occasion and needs to let go.

Op, YABU, for your own self try to change your mindset on this. He has booked a weeks holiday - he is allowed to do this and you can't reserve a week over summer. Let it go and focus on your summer plans.

Yes @FreedomFaith I've heard of it, but you cannot categorically say that's the case here because you have no idea. If he never took his child on holiday you'd call him shit for that too.

And decide what? Op hasn't booked a holiday so that would be stupid wouldn't it.

You sound very bitter and petty to me, willing to deprive your child so you can claim some type of victory over your ex.

OP is repeatedly telling us her ex was controlling and abusive and that this latest move by him is another attempt to control her because he can well afford to book a holiday outside of OP’s holiday time, and yet posters are calling her bitter and selfish and gaslighting her that she is the controlling one.

Women aren’t believing women and then we wonder why women stay in abusive relationships and why police and the government don’t do enough to protect women.

OP, you are absolutely not being unreasonable. Tell him you’ve already booked your holiday and he will need to change his booking.

@tallduckandhandsome

OP is repeatedly telling us her ex was controlling and abusive and that this latest move by him is another attempt to control her because he can well afford to book a holiday outside of OP’s holiday time, and yet posters are calling her bitter and selfish and gaslighting her that she is the controlling one.

Women aren’t believing women and then we wonder why women stay in abusive relationships and why police and the government don’t do enough to protect women.

OP, you are absolutely not being unreasonable. Tell him you’ve already booked your holiday and he will need to change his booking.

I believe her. But does that make what she is doing right? No. It doesn't.

He's given you plenty of notice. You may not like him changing the routine but it's perfectly reasonable and will look petty to challenge.

@FreedomFaith

I'm very surprised at some of the comments on here. For a site that is aimed at women, there sure are a lot of comments in favour for the poor old bully man here.

He's clearly doing it to get her to be under his control again. He was abusive to her, we don't know if that was in front of their child, but let's face it probably was. He's under a court order for his child because he's such a twat and he thinks he is God enough to not obey a judge.

Fuck that tosser. He's a moron. I'd tell him I would see what the judge said personally and ignore him otherwise. I'd then speak to my solicitor, tell them that I have plans with my child that week (even if it's not booked yet, you had plans during YOUR time, he is supposed to make plans during HIS specified time) and that you aren't really willing to change it just because he's decided he doesn't want to listen to the judge. He should be listening to his court order, op is right, you give him this he will take more and more, reduce the csa etc. Bet he doesn't even talk to his kid when he has them, probably just pawns them off on someone. Typical tosser loser father.

Other people's circumstances of their kids not even seeing their father don't matter here either. They just sadly have an even more useless father. Doesn't make this one a good one. Standards need to be higher, he is not adhering to them, he can piss off til he does.

A court would more than likely rule that unless OP has already paid for a holiday for those dates before he asked (even then not guaranteed to sway it) that he has given over and above the amount of notice outlined in the order, and that they won't intervene and rule he can't see them.

OP, I appreciate you had a difficult relationship with this man and he treated you poorly, but using your child as a weapon in some kind of weird power move you're attempting is not going to end well for anyone. You have had many, many people tell you that you are being bitter and unreasonable and I would support that view. Your behaviour and the way you discuss saying no 'out of principle' is disturbing and suggested you do not have your child's best interests at heart. I would be careful you don't end up pushing your child away with these games you're playing.

I think you have to decide what the issue is exactly OP, although I don't think you're being unreasonable to feel like he does what he wants and just expects you to be fine with it. He obviously likely to be constantly pushing the boundaries to his benefit.

Is the problem that he has taken the cheaper holiday slot and so this is going to make it tricky for you to go on holiday? (I'm assuming not because you said if he'd asked before booking you'd have been fine with it.)

Or is it that he booked without asking you? if that's the issue then I'd say let it go, he's giving lots of notice, he's asking - rather than just telling you that's it's happening (so actually you're the one in control here as you can say no) and I don't think it's worth falling out over - unless it does actually mean financially that you can't take your daughter away yourself. Then I would make plans early yourself for the year after and let him know so he doesn't get the cheap slot every year.

I get why you are pissed off, OP, but I don't think this is the hill to die on (unless you have booked and paid for those dates already).

There was a suggestion above that you agree but remind him that he should have asked first before booking - I would go with that.

Actually, I agree with you. Just tell him you already have something booked, and that he is meant to discuss his dates BEFORE booking and not afterwards. I can only assume the people telling you that you re being unreasonable are the ones who have not escaped this type of relationship. If he is continually breaking the agreement, then he needs to learn that it has to stop. he is getting February - so why should be get the summer choice as well?

At the worse he has been annoying to book her "usual" week BUT op doesn't have the right to a week over summer. She is over reacting on this occasion and needs to let go

If there is an established routine - something that has happened more than one consecutive year on the run - then it really would have been reasonable of him to check first. Indeed, if you're spending money on a holiday then asking before you book to make sure there is no clash would have been the right thing to do. It smacks of control and at some level, it is important for the OP to ensure that it's not the first of many attempts at manipulating a situation to suit himself.

That said, assuming the OP has not actually booked anything, there is really nothing to be done other than agree. And whilst OP , I agree you have no obligation to tell your ex your plans, it would be prudent for this to work both ways in the future. Every September, I text my ex with the broadest parameter of dates I intend to take the children away the next summer (eg. we have a weeks holiday but I give him 15 days worth of dates so I have some freedom when booking). I ask him to respond with any objections by X date. When X date arrives (usually a week after the text), I text again to say not heard from you (because he ignores me), I am now going to book those dates unless
you object in the next 24 hours. And then I book the dates and I have the evidence I contacted him twice should be get difficult (he always does, moans and moans about me having the 'best' part of the holiday. So one year, I deliberately booked the end rather than the beginning of the summer and he moaned the same thing again...!)

he's in the wrong, OP, but I think on this ocassion, you need to allow it to stand (that assumes you haven't booked anything).

@user1471518295

Actually, I agree with you. Just tell him you already have something booked, and that he is meant to discuss his dates BEFORE booking and not afterwards. I can only assume the people telling you that you re being unreasonable are the ones who have not escaped this type of relationship. If he is continually breaking the agreement, then he needs to learn that it has to stop. he is getting February - so why should be get the summer choice as well?

He's not breaking the agreement here is he?

The fact he’s given loads of notice, is taking the dc on holiday, you’ve had the ‘cheaper’ dates every year since you split and you have nothing booked for those weeks anyway does make you sound petty. Sorry.

I also do get where you’re coming from though, but I’m the grand scheme of things I think you need to let this happen this time but perhaps say to him next year you want dc for those weeks.

Your title says he is dictating holiday dates. But it does come across that actually you’ve been dictating holiday dates for the past however number of years.

Is it so bad he has those dates next year?
The fact he is actually taking dc on holiday is a good thing, is it not? I think when you coparent it’s not always going to be ideal juggling dates to suit both parents, but it’s best to do what is best for the dc? And if one parent sees an opportunity for a holiday as long as notice is given And it doesn’t clash with anything else booked I can’t see the issue.
What if it was reversed and you spotted a fantastic deal that dc would love and it fell on a week he usually had them. Wouldn’t you ask to switch?

He is breaking the agreement because holiday dates should be agreed not booked and then told. Which is actually the issue the op has that he has booked first.

*The booking it already is irrelevant to whether you agree those dates, really.

You can still say no - but actually why would you? It’s very much cut off nose to spite face territory. If you’d also booked a holiday then you’d have a real reason to object*

So him booking is irrelevant but op not booking is relevant?

Ok then

@RandomMess

He is breaking the agreement because holiday dates should be agreed not booked and then told. Which is actually the issue the op has that he has booked first.

I don't think it actually specifies that just says agreed?

@MrsClatterbuck

*The booking it already is irrelevant to whether you agree those dates, really.

You can still say no - but actually why would you? It’s very much cut off nose to spite face territory. If you’d also booked a holiday then you’d have a real reason to object*

So him booking is irrelevant but op not booking is relevant?

Ok then

Of course. If op had booked and he hadn't it would be the same.

If he was demanding a week where op had booked a holiday he'd be unreasonable. As op is unreasonable for saying no when she has nothing booked and he does.

Can you reply with something like, 'That sounds great, I actually was going to ask you if you wanted DC that week as I was hoping to make plans for something.'

If he's trying to be controlling, he will probably change his mind!!

@RandomMess

He is breaking the agreement because holiday dates should be agreed not booked and then told. Which is actually the issue the op has that he has booked first.

He's asking for the agreement. It doesn't matter that he's booked first.