To wonder if the majority of women might be happier without men

[Mummylookatmex1000]

I like men and always have, however, ever since I became a mum I’ve noticed the complete unfairness in life for females.
I think back to my mum and although my father’s a good man and was a good dad in his own way, it was my mum who was often in the background and busted her ass more.
In my group of friends, even the ones in happy relationships, they seem happier in the home or things run more smoothly when their dh’s/dp’s aren’t around.
In the less happy relationships, the women prefer when their partners aren’t around or weekends are filled with moodiness/stresses etc.
I remember in my own childhood, having to work around my dads moods or it affecting the family if he was stressed etc

Would we be happier if we were just a large community of women, with our friends and family?

Definitely agree with this

I would

@Ifyoudontlikeitdosomethingelse

How does it work if you give birth to a DS? Find out at 20 week scan and abort it? Hand them over to be put in a cage and used to donate sperm when they hit puberty? Bring them up yourself but then give them away at 18 and never see them again?

Where do we get the sperm from? Farms of men, locked up and milked like cows?
Borrow a man to fuck for 5 days around ovulation? Can we go to the man pound and choose which one we like the look of?

I honestly think some posters on here would be happy with that , thankfully Mumsnet is not representative of the real world

Fine, all men are bad, world would be better without them.
Abort sons then , you must be perfectly comfortable with it

Ah.. this old chestnut. The majority have not said get rid of all men nor is that what the OP is asking or suggesting. Why does it always seemingly mean “get rid of all men” to some people when this question is asked?

Me personally, no. The vast majority of relationships and interactions with men over my lifetime have been positive and enjoyable. However, now with the wisdom of middle age, I realise that for most of my life I have enjoyed pretty privilege and been a fairly passive people pleaser. If it weren't for these things I feel my experience may have been different.

@phoenixrosehere

*Fine, all men are bad, world would be better without them. Abort sons then , you must be perfectly comfortable with it*

Ah.. this old chestnut. The majority have not said get rid of all men nor is that what the OP is asking or suggesting. Why does it always seemingly mean “get rid of all men” to some people when this question is asked?

Why don’t some people have any reading comprehension ability? Thé post was in response to people suggesting that men are only needed for their sperm, and a couple more have suggested that an all women world would be ideal.

I don’t expect people to trawl through all posts except for the OP’s but at least understand the context of specific ones you’re responding to.

I'm not sure. I mean if MN is anything to go by (and I accept it can be fairly batshit), a lot of women can be particularly vicious towards other women.

Think about all the anti MIL threads and anti SIL threads. Then think about all the anti celeb threads - the abuse/criticism is quite heavily directed at far more females in the public eye than males. I think choosing a partner carefully, setting (and sticking to) personal boundaries and not being in a hurry to have children with that partner stands a bit more chance of long-term happiness, than living in a community full of the same sex.

Totally agree with this. I work in a female heavy job and women are no less arseholes, dramatic, lazy, or whiny than men are. In fact more so probably as they judge each other and there's always some drama going on.

Sadly I think shit men are always going to be around and not open to changing because why should they when there are plenty women who will happily put up with their crap?

Women need to get more demanding and raise their expectations before any major change from shit husband level will happen.

*Why don’t some people have any reading comprehension ability?
Thé post was in response to people suggesting that men are only needed for their sperm, and a couple more have suggested that an all women world would be ideal.

I don’t expect people to trawl through all posts except for the OP’s but at least understand the context of specific ones you’re responding to.*

And my post still stands. It’s still a minority saying such things.

@Ledition

A world without men would be very sad.

Not when you remove the thousands upon thousands of acts of violence and rape perpetrated by men against women every single day around the world - not THAT is sad.

It’s rather extreme to dispense with an entire gender just to deal with the bad apples.

Baby and bathwater spring to mind.

It sounds to me like a lot of the people in your life are sadly in very toxic relationships. My parents destroyed each other over thirty years together and are only really finding happiness now they are apart.
My relationship with my husband is thankfully very different and I've learned from a lot of my parents mistakes.

It’s rather extreme to dispense with an entire gender just to deal with the bad apples.

Baby and bathwater spring to mind.

Indeed. Where do we stop with that? Dispense with all because of the bad apples.

Imagine a world without

What a wonderful world that would be.

Statistically yes, but of course people are going to think about this on an individual level.

No thanks, imagine the bitchiness.

This thread got me thinking... I mean, my marriage and having kids has had its challenges, but I don't think I'd be happier without DH & kids.

But then I'm not someone who has very close, confiding friendships and I find it hard to make friends. I think a life without the 'shape' given by partner and kids would, for me, be kind of drifiting and meaningless. I don't think that I'd have found an meaningful enough relationship with my nieces or nephew or friends to replace what I have with my husband and kids. Obviously a lot of other people totally could - I hate people saying that life without a partner/kids 'can't be' meaningful and fulfilling, that's total bollocks. But for me I think I kind of needed both!

@Echobelly

This thread got me thinking... I mean, my marriage and having kids has had its challenges, but I don't think I'd be happier without DH & kids.

But then I'm not someone who has very close, confiding friendships and I find it hard to make friends. I think a life without the 'shape' given by partner and kids would, for me, be kind of drifiting and meaningless. I don't think that I'd have found an meaningful enough relationship with my nieces or nephew or friends to replace what I have with my husband and kids. Obviously a lot of other people totally could - I hate people saying that life without a partner/kids 'can't be' meaningful and fulfilling, that's total bollocks. But for me I think I kind of needed both!

At the end of the day it depends on your personality, where you live and lots of other things. Most of my closest friends are from uni/work that I met while living my life, without any undue effort. Many have now left because of Covid and live in other cities. After putting myself 'out there' I found it very easy to find people to have fun with. But could I confide in them, call them up if I was having a bad day? No. I'm not the sort of person who can make close friends by seeing people at a meet-up ; mainly because I don't have the bandwidth to go out all day every day. Seeing people once a week at a class/hobby doesn't do much either as everyone just shows up and goes home. I tried going out more (which just tired me out), taking part in more social hobbies (which I really hated). In the end I've just decided to live my life - which I hate to admit it but would be pretty lonely without DP. I'd rather be single compared to having a bad partner (I dated a lot and rejected quite a few men), but I wouldn't see it as an ideal situation. Just something I'd have to make my peace with.

I've moved across continents, and have friends across the world as well as locally, plus friendly acquaintances by the score, but they are never going to be a substitute for my DH, who is always there for me. We are 65, so unlikely to trade in for a younger model, unless one of us pops off.

Op my mum was the mercurial person in our home. At times I'd have opted to live quietly with Dad had I been given the option as a kid.

I think the bottom line is “presence/availability”.

If your friends are always available to talk about your day, spend the weekend with you, join you on trips or to have a good laugh and show affection back and forth perhaps you would be better off without a man but… everybody needs a partner in crime who is available in the ups and downs and that normally comes only from immediate family.

I don’t think the above can be replaced by the company of your kids either. I love my child to bits but it would be a bit unhealthy to live in each other’s pockets as a mother and child as children need independence to develop and it would be unfair to get the support everyone needs from your own child (that’s not a burden for them to take).

@crymeapuddle

No thanks, imagine the bitchiness.

You think men can't be bitchy? Have I got news for you...

Nice internalised misogyny you have there

@Mummylookatmex1000

I like men and always have, however, ever since I became a mum I’ve noticed the complete unfairness in life for females. I think back to my mum and although my father’s a good man and was a good dad in his own way, it was my mum who was often in the background and busted her ass more. In my group of friends, even the ones in happy relationships, they seem happier in the home or things run more smoothly when their dh’s/dp’s aren’t around. In the less happy relationships, the women prefer when their partners aren’t around or weekends are filled with moodiness/stresses etc. I remember in my own childhood, having to work around my dads moods or it affecting the family if he was stressed etc

Would we be happier if we were just a large community of women, with our friends and family?

As most women love sex with men, the answer to that will a big fat swinging no!.

Men and women bring different attitudes to relationships. Because only women can bear children and lactate, and tend to become absorbed by their children's needs until they go to school, they lose time in the workplace, which is restless, so they are judged as failing by male performance standards when they seek to return to work. Hence the vast over-representation of women in the education system. I have QTS so I know that the hours are not just school hours, but the fact that holidays coincide with children's holidays makes life just a little more manageable and more fun than getting five weeks leave and wondering what the heck to do to cover childcare during the 10 weeks neither parent is on holiday.

I believe women are always going to have to try to reconcile the impossible, but personally I don't want to live in a matriarchy or a patriarchy. A female world... apart from my DM and sister... no thanks.
I can cope with male moods and insecurities... in fact I enjoy the power of not suffering in the same way. Men need women to help them cope more than we need them to catch dinner. But IMO the world is better and richer from having two sexes.

I've been single for almost 4 years now. For about 3 1/2 of that people have been asking if I've met someone else, am I moving on etc? I'm happier than I've been in ages now and although being a lone parent to children with SN is not easy at least I don't have another adult causing problems for me to solve too. I'm no longer wondering what bullshit is coming next. I can make my plans to suit me and the kids. Decide where to go and what to spend. I recommend it.

@DrCoconut

I've been single for almost 4 years now. For about 3 1/2 of that people have been asking if I've met someone else, am I moving on etc? I'm happier than I've been in ages now and although being a lone parent to children with SN is not easy at least I don't have another adult causing problems for me to solve too. I'm no longer wondering what bullshit is coming next. I can make my plans to suit me and the kids. Decide where to go and what to spend. I recommend it.

That’s not quite what OP is asking though, is it? You’re not living in a commune dominated Solely by females. You still see and interact with men on a daily basis I presume?

@notanothertakeaway

I think you'll get hundreds on NAMALT posts, but judging by the number of posters who seem to be in shit relationships, I'd say you're probably right

But is it acceptable to come onto mumsnet or in RL, to wax lyrical about your good happy relationship with a good man? You get accused of being smug etc. It's only on threads like this, that women can say NAMALT.

OP you are being totally unreasonable.

Possibly misguided because only women with men they're not happy with post on MN? But they're a lot of good men out there.