To wonder if the majority of women might be happier without men

[Mummylookatmex1000]

I like men and always have, however, ever since I became a mum I’ve noticed the complete unfairness in life for females.
I think back to my mum and although my father’s a good man and was a good dad in his own way, it was my mum who was often in the background and busted her ass more.
In my group of friends, even the ones in happy relationships, they seem happier in the home or things run more smoothly when their dh’s/dp’s aren’t around.
In the less happy relationships, the women prefer when their partners aren’t around or weekends are filled with moodiness/stresses etc.
I remember in my own childhood, having to work around my dads moods or it affecting the family if he was stressed etc

Would we be happier if we were just a large community of women, with our friends and family?

Depends on your relationship, with my ex, far happier on my own, my dh I was much happier with him than without.

A big commune filled with women, no men? No ta

@Mummylookatmex1000

Oh 🤣ok then

😂😂

I think yes. My DP is a wonderful man, loving kind and thoughtful but he irritates me and so does every man I’ve ever been with although I always seem to want to be in a relationship then I’m miserable once I’m in it! DP works abroad thank god so it’s a good balance for me.

Yes there are many times when I think this. But I like having a partner in life to share parenting with, cuddles and someone who can remove spiders and mend things do the small jobs I don't like doing. I just don't want to have to deal with an extra person making mess and someone else's timetable, mood and preferences to consider every day.

@DaphneduWarrior

I spent most of my thirties single. I love being alone, and I love how supportive and brilliant my friends are. They’re mostly female too, and I feel like I’m in a ‘community’ of women a lot of the time.

It means that when I did meet my BF, I wasn’t desperate for a relationship. My attitude was: unless you can offer me something amazing that I can’t get out of my life as it is now, then I’m not interested.

He did, and I am

But I feel really lucky to have had both experiences and to know that whatever happens with my relationship, I’ll always have that ‘community of women’ around me.

I think this is a really good point.

There are some people (and I think this applies to both men and women, possibly, anecdotally for different reasons) who feel they 'have to be' in a relationship, and are more keen on the idea of being "in a relationship" than they actually are fussy about the person themselves. Perhaps it is different for those people ?

When I was choosing a partner in my 20s, I was looking for somebody who was cool, interesting, shared my politics, wanted to talk about books and films etc. When what I SHOULD have been looking for was somebody who was kind, reliable, into having a family, shared my life goals. It seems so obvious looking back.

^
Agree with every word.

No. I like sex too much.

I know a number of women who would probably be happier separating from their partner/dh

Some just don’t want to be single others like the comfortable trappings

[quote Catsstillrock]@JaniieJones women have to just choose their partners carefully. So many seem to settle for feckless lazy fuckers who are addicted to porn and don't pull their weight

No, society needs to stop pressuring women into relationships and judging our worth / success first on whether we have a boyfriend / husband (and then children).

Also we need to better support women with children to live alone.

Social pressure encourages women to settle for crappy me (also their crappiness isn’t always visible pre kids)

And financial AND social pressure make it really hard to leave.

So many stay and are miserable.

It’s structural. Under current conditions many women holding out for the good ones would stay single and childless.

Yes we need to expect better of men, and teach men / boys better.

They current pitch is skewed against women.[/quote]
@Catsstillrock

I 100% a free with you, an excellent observation.

In order not to end up with a knob or remain childless not by choice I decided to go at it alone (solo parent to be via IVF and a sperm donor). I definitely felt the social pressure to 'hold out' and meet someone in time and have a family with...two decades of dating and various relationships/situanship/even including a marriage have shown me otherwise.

*agree rather!

Would we be happier if we were just a large community of women, with our friends and family?

I'm not sure. I mean if MN is anything to go by (and I accept it can be fairly batshit), a lot of women can be particularly vicious towards other women.

Think about all the anti MIL threads and anti SIL threads. Then think about all the anti celeb threads - the abuse/criticism is quite heavily directed at far more females in the public eye than males.

I think choosing a partner carefully, setting (and sticking to) personal boundaries and not being in a hurry to have children with that partner stands a bit more chance of long-term happiness, than living in a community full of the same sex.

It depends what you mean when you say most women would be happier without men...

Patently most women are not able to completely give up men, or they wouldn't tie themselves up in knots trying to catch them, keep them, please them, make themselves look good for them etc.

But I do think the majority of women are ultimately happier living without men. Men haven't really evolved properly to cope with sharing properly with a woman in an equal environment. It's remarkable how many women, after having kids and hitting menopause, want a life without men.

I love men to bits and couldn't live without them in my life but I'd never live with one again.

I agree op.

I love my dp a huge amount and my life would be worse without him, but without any men all women and girls would become instantly much safer and their life choices would be limited less.

I think we need to teach young women to have higher standards and be more selfish. Nature fucks us over by making us the ones who carry and give birth hence being more vulnerable etc. But we really should expect a lot more from men. It's a lesson I learned the hard way.

Possibly but I think it's something that comes gradually (if it comes- obv not all women!).

Esp in 40s/ and peri/Meno seems to be a trigger as well.

There also may be a grass greener thing.

Anyway most women I know would not want another man at least not live with one again if relationship with partner finished.

I suppose as the years pass things change. If you have kids and you feel like it's you battling everyone else to keep house ok everyone fed decently etc it wears a bit thin. Of course a lot of time it seems that men who start off pulling their weight it shifts if children come.

Dunno.

I often fantasise about running away even though DH is lovely.

I have 3 friends (this sounds awful to say but true) lost their dads in last couple of years and the mums have totally changed. Going out seeing friends doing stuff. I mean not straight away obv. Thinking about it my gran did that. My granddad wouldn't go on hols overseas amongst other stuff when he died she went on long cruise.

There's also that thing about how men with women are happier while women with men are least happy. And in general we seem to be more independent capable of looking after selves.

I just don't know. In general men leave when got someone to go to and women leave when unhappy.

Tricky.

Of course an awful lot of women while kids at home are financially stuck.

A lot of things going on with it!

There are some people (and I think this applies to both men and women, possibly, anecdotally for different reasons) who feel they 'have to be' in a relationship, and are more keen on the idea of being "in a relationship" than they actually are fussy about the person themselves.
I know a lot of people who want to be seen to be in a relationship, and are willing to put up with a lot for that. And the ones I know are almost all female. Then the rush to have a couple of kids. It's a recipe for unhappiness.

@BornInAThunderstorm

There is a really interesting film called “No Men Beyond This Point” about men going extinct. A bit off topic but worth a watch

Also a short story by John Wyndham on the same theme called Consider Her Ways.

l personally think men are much easier to get on with than women. They are alot more upfront, and complain alot less.
The biggest mistake women make is expecting a man to think or behave as they would, they are looking for a male version of their best mate, its not going to happen.
Women are very vocal about shouting down men yet these same women are not always the healthiest examples for their own daughters, women do need to be accountable for the choices they make and learn from it.
Also men are different in that they have no interest in becoming martyrs, they are not people pleasers, yes all parents have a responsibility to bring up their young men to be decent and kind, that goes without saying but we also need to empower our young women to love themselves first, then they wouldnt be willing to put up with half the shit most women do today.

Oh please. That is not where women are going wrong.

"Men have no interest in becoming martyrs".

Well. Not sure that is 100% true, but its easier no to be a martyr when the relationship is set up to suit you and society condones all of that

I couldn’t agree more. My Dad ruined my childhood and my partner ruins my adulthood. My experience with men is 90% negative. When I flat shared with girls I had the time of my life. I get on with women much better than with men too.

I agree completely, OP. I don't know anyone who is happily married, including myself.

@FindingMeno

There's nothing more supportive than an all-women environment. The spanner in the works is if you are a heterosexual woman not prepared for celibacy.

The one time I worked in an all-women environment was the worst time I've ever had. Mean Girls was nothing. It might have been supportive if you fit in with the type of person in that office but I was a fat frumpy IT nerd and they made me know how they felt every single day I worked there. 3 months of hell wrapped up in a 'are you alright hun' attitude.

Never again

I agree completely, OP. I don't know anyone who is happily married, including myself

I do.

I don’t think we need to have a no-man environment but just one where same sex communities are the core of everyday life and work. Where the main family unit is not the nuclear family with a single woman responsible for childcare and domestic chores. This would be shared communally amongst the women.

The rise of patriarchy and women becoming a reproductive and labour source has caused the problems for us. My friend tells me about her culture where boys are considered more important because they stay with the family and the girls have to leave their own family when they get married. They go to live with their husband’s family and in a way become their property. The nuclear family is an extension of that. But men and women are not generally compatible and so it still fails with the women losing out because of old expectations placed on us.