To wonder if the majority of women might be happier without men

[Mummylookatmex1000]

I like men and always have, however, ever since I became a mum I’ve noticed the complete unfairness in life for females.
I think back to my mum and although my father’s a good man and was a good dad in his own way, it was my mum who was often in the background and busted her ass more.
In my group of friends, even the ones in happy relationships, they seem happier in the home or things run more smoothly when their dh’s/dp’s aren’t around.
In the less happy relationships, the women prefer when their partners aren’t around or weekends are filled with moodiness/stresses etc.
I remember in my own childhood, having to work around my dads moods or it affecting the family if he was stressed etc

Would we be happier if we were just a large community of women, with our friends and family?

My dad definitely pulled his weight at home and DH does too, but I do think it's a shame that it's not more socially acceptable to be a single woman.

@FrazzledY9Parent Yes, that’s exactly it, I love the company of men, or at least did when I was younger and had lots of male friends. They were generally v witty, funny, kind, interesting etc…perhaps it’s just when we get in a relationship with them..although I didn’t think like this until I had a child and realised exactly what so many women were talking about.

Women have to just choose their partners carefully. So many seem to settle for feckless lazy fuckers who are addicted to porn and don't pull their weight.

I certainly am. I love my male friends and siblings but absolutely won't be living with a man again.

Yup. Almost 40 years on this earth and to be honest I think the majority of men are idiots really.

I had the same experience of a father op, my mum busted her ass, dad just sat there passively etc etc.

And it's depressingly rare the man who doesn't objectify women. Really shocking.

I know what you mean though OP & the bar for men is pretty low & so many women put themselves at the bottom of the pile.

I was quite lucky that my DH had a SAHD who ran the household which was unusual in the 90s & DH is far more hands on than any of his friends.

My mum didn't work but my dad had a very good job so we had nannies etc so my mum did lots of hobbies etc & when my dad wasn't working he played with us & did the cooking etc

However I have colleagues who leave their dc with their own mum instead of their husbands alone or if going away cook them food & portion it out for them.

I think most people (men and women) would probably be happier if they didn’t stay in relationships that don’t work for either of them, just because it’s somehow viewed as better than being single.

@immersivereader

Yup. Almost 40 years on this earth and to be honest I think the majority of men are idiots really.

I had the same experience of a father op, my mum busted her ass, dad just sat there passively etc etc.

And it's depressingly rare the man who doesn't objectify women. Really shocking.

I agree. And I’m about the same age as you. I think as you get older you really see through all the bullshit and have less tolerance for selfish man behaviour.

@JaniieJones I often think about this. When I was choosing a partner in my 20s, I was looking for somebody who was cool, interesting, shared my politics, wanted to talk about books and films etc. When what I SHOULD have been looking for was somebody who was kind, reliable, into having a family, shared my life goals. It seems so obvious looking back. I now see that the guys at university that I literally wouldn't have looked twice at are now the lovely dads and great family providers that also have a great sense of humour - whereas the guys I was chasing are grumpy manchildren on their second or third marriage/partner/kid. DOH!!!

@FrazzledY9Parent 100%!

I have some really good friendships with male colleagues and enjoy male company generally, I find men are less bitchy or judgemental than some women can be, but i'm not sure i'd want to live with a man again. It always seems to end with me doing too much in a relationship, so now it's time to make my interactions with men suit me. If that means staying single for my own sanity so be it

Dad was a naval officer, away at sea for two years and then home for two during the 60s. Parents married very young, as people did then. Mum learned to deal with everything, and to fend off unwelcome help but her experience of divorce taught me that it was important to be self-reliant. DH and I have been happy: he can cook and clean and do everything else too but as his business has grown and mine declined (I told him it would happen), I have taken on a more domestic role, but am still the main corporate strategy opponent for kitchen debate. I know that my input has enriched us and our business, and we tackle issues as equals and partners. I no longer earn much, but my input is important and valued. Most important, we can still make each other rock with laughter; his good friends are also mine, and mine are there for him. But my casual acquaintances wouldn't know his face, as I don't know the people he relies on as customers and suppliers.

My Dad was great.
I had a rude awakening when I got into the dating world and guys were not like him at all.

I've given it a good shot twice. 2 marriages, 1 livein,
I was widowed at a young age
2nd marriage broke my heart
livein was a non event as I was too young.

I work in a male dominated industry and don't have a problem with guy's I've worked with.
I believe I'm more like a guy than I am feminine and for dating, most men really don't like it. I believe they think I will get in line with expectations for women and center them, but I won't and haven't.

I believe most women get a raw deal in relationships with men, especially when they have children. The world counts on that X trillion dollars of free labour women provide.

I don't like being low-level afraid when I walk out the door and having to restrict myself to try to prevent myself from being harmed.

It's just not so simple, even as a thought experiment. A lot of people like to have company. And it's easy to say we'd have a wonderful community of women, but read the many threads on here by people who don't have any friends - making them isn't so easy.

I don’t think I personally would be better off without my DH but I think a lot of women would.

I have a friend who split from her husband about 18 months ago (he was cheating on her, but they’d been unhappy for a while). They have two young children (7 and 4). At first I felt sorry for her and was worried about how she’d cope as a single mum to two children.

But she really is so much better off without him in every way. She now has only two children rather than three. Their custody arrangement means that he actually has to do some parenting and she gets some time off - which never happened when they were married. She looks amazing (I think because she actually gets some time to take care of herself), she seems so much happier and her career’s gone from strength to strength.

I am. Cross with myself for all the years i wasted trying to meet somebody. I was never desperate. But i did feel like i should try to meet somebody. Such a waste of time, energy, effort, focus, money, optimism.

Not bothering anymore, so much happier

I'm male and have seen this from both sides. I've got a longstanding female friend who I think has pissed away her best years on a manipulative arsehole. After two decades she has somewhat got her life back, but it's changed her. She is less happy, more prone to jealousy and less kind. The real personality is still there but it's hidden behind clouds much of the time.

Then again, I am more content on my own. The women I've been in relationships with have either exhausted me with emotional dependence, or chipped away at my peace of mind by complaining about everything. I think women are socialised to be responsible for their partner's comfort and end up sacrificing themselves, but equally men can feel responsible for their partner's happiness and feel under pressure.

@stuckdownahole I agree. I think on the whole we (men and women) are sadly lacking in relationship skills. I look back at my younger self, and as well as not knowing what I was looking for in a relationship, I didn't have a clue how to be in a relationship either. I am now single and very content but if I was to meet somebody, I'd be a lot more intentional about working at the relationship, communication etc.

[quote FrazzledY9Parent]@JaniieJones I often think about this. When I was choosing a partner in my 20s, I was looking for somebody who was cool, interesting, shared my politics, wanted to talk about books and films etc. When what I SHOULD have been looking for was somebody who was kind, reliable, into having a family, shared my life goals. It seems so obvious looking back. I now see that the guys at university that I literally wouldn't have looked twice at are now the lovely dads and great family providers that also have a great sense of humour - whereas the guys I was chasing are grumpy manchildren on their second or third marriage/partner/kid. DOH!!![/quote]
Exactly! I can always have friends to talk books politics whatever but having someone reliable at home is a warm, comfy feeling.

I think you'll get hundreds on NAMALT posts, but judging by the number of posters who seem to be in shit relationships, I'd say you're probably right

The posters are self-selecting, though, so of course they'll disproportionately show the bad.

Oddly enough, you don't see hundreds of posts from women asking for urgent advice on how to deal with a DH who is amazing - or, more realistically, one who can sometimes be a bit annoying (being human), but is kind, loving and respectful.

I agree. It's taken me 44 years to figure out that men are overrated but now I'm done. The only man that ever did anything for me was my ex-husband but he had his own issues which made him difficult to live with.

@TreeSmuggler

It's just not so simple, even as a thought experiment. A lot of people like to have company. And it's easy to say we'd have a wonderful community of women, but read the many threads on here by people who don't have any friends - making them isn't so easy.

Also women aren't better people than men. That's sexist, lazy stereotyping the same way women are supposed to be 'pleasant, kind and ladylike'.

I've been backstabbed, emotionally manipulated, bullied and excluded by women. People talk a lot about the 'sisterhood' but that's bollocks. I do have a special relationship with my female friends but I don't think that all females are good people by virtue of having vaginas.

Society (and to a certain extent biology) has made shitwork fall onto women - but that's a different thing entirely.

Also in RL the men I know are nothing like Mumsnet... of course you get complaints about shit men here... nobofy's going to start a thread 'my DP is amazing' are they now?

*YABVVU OP

My husband drives me mad sometimes but I wouldn't be without him.
I don't know if I'm the minority on MN that has found all woman environments at work the worst jobs. Catty, bitchy, high school crap that you just dont get working with men- or if you do when you call them on it it stops!

@notanothertakeaway

I think you'll get hundreds on NAMALT posts, but judging by the number of posters who seem to be in shit relationships, I'd say you're probably right

Surely people post on here when they’re unhappy or need advice? No point in posting ‘All good here. The End’ My life’s better with my husband and son in it, no question.