No set bedrooms?

[SouthernFashionista]

In a court case that is currently ongoing there was mention of a situation where individuals in a house had no set bed or bedroom and everyone just slept ‘wherever’. The thoughts of it bothered me. I think every child needs their own space. I know it’s clearly symptomatic of a chaotic household and lifestyle. Is this something many of you have come across? AIBU for being shocked?

I feel like some posters are being deliberately obtuse with regard to the idea of "musical beds in a regular household" being the same as "a child having no space to call their own in a chaotic and neglectful household"

Neglect isn't always immediately obvious nor is it just one single factor- it is multiple different factors that, when combined, show that basic child welfare standards aren't being met. Every "normal" household probably exhibits, at some time or another, red flags for neglectful behaviour however a single event/situation in isolation is not going to cause a child to be removed from their parents, but if that event/situation is just one of many that forms a pattern of neglectful behaviour then it might be that this event is the final straw to have the child removed.

DD is an only child so no issues with sharing rooms etc but I grew up as one of multiple siblings in a house where my brothers shared a room and me and my sister shared a room. As much as we all did our fair share of bed hopping mostly depending on which siblings were least likely to smother each other with a pillow for breathing the wrong way on any particular day we all knew that we had a bed, there was space for everyone to sleep comfortably and there was always enough clean bedding (sheets/blankets/pillows) for everyone, regardless of whether you were the first to bed or the last.

Contrast that with a a friend of mine's adopted daughter who was removed from her biological family due to neglect. In the home she was removed from there were 5 children sleeping in a room with one bare double mattress on the floor. The children had the choice of either all squishing up together like sardines or some children sleeping on the floor as there was nowhere else to sleep. Add to that the fact there wasn't enough bedding for all of the children so that the children would use anything to keep warm at night - including towels and even outdoor coats - or sleep on piles of dirty clothes if it meant they didn't have to sleep on the hard floor and that was a clear red flag of wider neglect.

Is this a cultural thing? (That’s a genuine question)
I know some cultures share beds, rooms etc. But do many cultures, when they have access to multiple beds\rooms still choose to not have regular spaces to sleep for each individual?

Also responding to @EinsteinaGogo

Yes it is a cultural norm. In my XH's family (not sharing the country for my own privacy) three households live in one small house. The 2 living rooms have banquettes round each side. There is a large box of clean folded blankets and when it's bedtime everyone takes a blanket and chooses a banquette to sleep on. There are two bedrooms and those bedrooms are taken by whoever has priority need for it at the time. They use the bedrooms to change and keep the clothes. They no longer need to live like this, but choose to. This is a totally normal way of life for families there where homes are small and families are large, often with several generations in one house.

I'm a social worker and I've visited families from India and Bangladesh who have a similar approach. I visited a family who had a huge lovely expensive flat with two families living in where the children and women slept in whichever beds they felt like at the time. There were enough beds for everyone but nobody had 'their own' bed. It wasn't a financial or space issue it was just normal to them. The children had plenty of 'stuff' just not a bed of their own.

I hate the every child needs their own space, try living in a council house children are expected to share rooms

Children share rooms in all sorts of houses. Not quite sure why council housing is specifically mentioned.

@Bluesheep8

I hate the every child needs their own space, try living in a council house children are expected to share rooms

Children share rooms in all sorts of houses. Not quite sure why council housing is specifically mentioned.

As I said earlier it's NOT about sharing rooms, it's about being in a dysfunctional household where chaos reigns and the needs of the child are not being met, for example no bed being available for the child, no organization, no clean clothes ready for child etc. Lots of children share rooms but have their own bed, chest of drawers, clothes etc, but in some families that doesn't happen.

I think it was @mrskoala who has posted quite a bit about their fluid bed and sleeping arrangements. It wouldn't be for me but then I like order and structure and my children do too.

It should be noted that I am absolutely not suggesting that is neglect in any shape or form. I think what the OP is referring to is certainly neglect and is quite different.

I had a friend at school who shared one small bedroom with her two siblings. Coming from a large house I found this a bit shocking. But they all very clearly had their own bed and space within that tiny room. It was neat and tidy. I totally get the idea that children need their own designated area and space. My two year old has his own cot and bed which is very important to him. He loves showing it off to visitors even though its not well decorated or anything fancy.

I think psychologically children do better if they have their own space to keep their possessions in. But that can be a drawer, a shelf, a bedside table. It does not have to be a whole room. Most parents naturally set this up in shared rooms.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

Is this a cultural thing? (That’s a genuine question) I know some cultures share beds, rooms etc. But do many cultures, when they have access to multiple beds\rooms still choose to not have regular spaces to sleep for each individual?

Also responding to @EinsteinaGogo

Yes it is a cultural norm. In my XH's family (not sharing the country for my own privacy) three households live in one small house. The 2 living rooms have banquettes round each side. There is a large box of clean folded blankets and when it's bedtime everyone takes a blanket and chooses a banquette to sleep on. There are two bedrooms and those bedrooms are taken by whoever has priority need for it at the time. They use the bedrooms to change and keep the clothes. They no longer need to live like this, but choose to. This is a totally normal way of life for families there where homes are small and families are large, often with several generations in one house.

I'm a social worker and I've visited families from India and Bangladesh who have a similar approach. I visited a family who had a huge lovely expensive flat with two families living in where the children and women slept in whichever beds they felt like at the time. There were enough beds for everyone but nobody had 'their own' bed. It wasn't a financial or space issue it was just normal to them. The children had plenty of 'stuff' just not a bed of their own.

Thanks for that response. It was really helpful. I think we always need to be mindful that our opinions are always underpinned by our own culture and values.

Why aren’t people waiting until they can afford it until they have children these days.

My goodness: if your child doesn’t have her / his own bed: you are failing at something really, really basic. Grow up and step up please.

Why does every child need their own space ? Millions of families throughout the world live in one room. Many families are homeless and don't even have one room. Don't know where this claptrap comes from but it is so ridiculous.

When my ex was attempting to make me look like a shit mother, one of things he said was that DS2 (then 7) did not have his own room.
He had a bed in my large room.
Cafcass were not at all interested - they could see that I was providing for our son and he would much happier without his deadbeat father around, own bedroom or not
If he'd wanted to drag that one out, I could have suggested that if he had worked we might have had more £ to get a larger house.

But back to the OP, we may not have had much space, but everyone's privacy and personal space was respected and DS2 did have place for his special things.

It’s difficult not knowing the context of the court case.
Could it be that it is a house where not all the adults are related? I’m thinking if there was a parent/parents and maybe other adults staying or living there and no one had set beds or separate places for the kids to sleep? Could this lead to concern that unrelated adults slept alongside a child/ children? Maybe I’m over thinking it.

I know someone who was in a 1 bed council flat with her 5 year old son, they shared a room. They both wanted and needed their own space! Through much hard work persuading a council that is short on housing they now have a bedroom each

My DDs (8 and 9) share a room, but DD1 has frequent sleep difficulties and these can disturb DD2, so she is sleeping more or less every night in DS (6)'s room on a fold out futon thing. She loves the futon and the arrangement, but all her stuff is still in the bedroom she shares with DD2. I'm tempted sometimes just to formalise the arrangement and move the two of them into the bigger bedroom and give DD1 the smaller bedroom as her own. However, I'm not really sure... how old is too old to share a room with a younger brother? Right now they're happy with it, but I feel like (this being the UK) there's probably some kind of law or "guidance" about it.

Anyway, the upshot is, DD2 sleeps in one room and keeps her stuff in another. I don't think she feels she lacks her own space though.

I shared a bed with my older sister until she left home (she was 11 years my senior).

@ThatsAllFolks

Not everyone, but in my house I sleep wherever no one else is sleeping. No designated bedroom for me. Kids have tho

Me too - can’t cope with DH snoring so I bed hop to whoever is at Uni/ sleepover/ staying at girlfriends - whatever. About twice a month all beds are full and I have to share with DH - I then sleep top to tail to get as far away from the snoring as possible.

@Evelyn52

It sounds odd but then we kind of do something similar I guess. My DH and I have our own room and bed obvs but our twin boys share a room, there are 2 beds in there and were 'assigned' one each but they swap between them depending how they feel and I've not done anything about it tbh cause I can't be arsed, it doesn't really matter.

Probably a little different where it concerns twins. I feel twins have a special bond that most people don't understand so the fact that they swap beds may be some kind of innate closeness that they have with each other that makes it different and more acceptable.

What case is this?

It could be a case, that the family don't have enough money, to afford beds for everyone.
I watched a TV show about debt collectors, one woman who had 2 kids, had to sleep on a bed with her 2 children, she didn't earn enough money to pay all the rent, feed and look after her kids, even though she was working, she could claim benifits, due to not yet having received citizenship.
They could only afford a bedsit, so they had to sleep together.
From what I saw on the programme, it happens a lot, that parents and kids are sleeping together as the don't have enough money for bed, each for the kids, let alone a room each and some even struggle to afford night ware for the kids too. It's a shame, but it does happen.

I agree - growing up we either sofa surfed (for a cleanish place to sleep) or I shared a “bed” with my mum and 2 siblings. The bed was actually a couple of old blankets on the floor and a couple on top in the living room. It was horrific, sleeping in the clothes you had been in all day and getting dragged from house to house in the hope a relative with electricity would let you sleep on their sittee or armchair for the night. I remember wandering around in the dark with my mum and 2 siblings thoroughly exhausted night after night and just not wanting to be here anymore. The stress on a child in that situation is way too much and I think causes long term damage. We should have been taken into foster care a lot earlier than we were.

I remember the day we came home from foster care and a charity had bought us some single beds for our shared bedroom and a couple of plastic drawers each… I could have peed myself with joy having my own space.

Every child should have their own space from a certain age, not their own room but a space they can make their own and at least know where they can sleep every night.

Quite a few of the families I work with mum will share with girls and baby and dad with older boysin a combination of double and single beds. I never consider the child neglected as long as they have a warm and clean space to sleep. It is the norm in some cultures we need to remove our British attitudes to sleeping arrangements and not interpret a lack of a designated spot as a neglect issue. Unless of course there are other issues.

I think the lack of a bed/own space could be a useful marker when investigating whether children are being neglected. So something useful within a wider picture, that taken into account culture, SEN etc

I remember a horrible case I read about a few years back, where some children died in a house fire at night. The article mentioned the fact that the young children (toddlers & primary aged) didn’t have pyjamas - just underwear or normal day clothes - and for some reason that’s really stuck in my head as a real mark of neglect. Imagine not caring or bothering whether your kids are suitably dressed for bedtime? I imagine in some cases the lack of a bed could similarly raise a red flag.

I am a CP social worker and context is everything here. I work with families in over crowded houses and children share bedrooms but they all know they have their own bed, made up with clean bedding which they can access each night with the support of parents and a bed time routine. Children choosing to swap and sleep elsewhere is not an issue.

I have also worked with large families where neglect and lack of routine is very engrained. Despite having a 5 bed house and in theory space for every child (though maybe shared rooms) children are just left to find a bed, sometimes with no sheets, duvet cover etc at whatever time they take themselves to bed. I have known of younger primary school children taking themselves off to a room where the teenager also has their boyfriend/girlfriend to sleep because other bedrooms in the house are so full of crap it is just not an option.

I have lived in central Europe and also work with parents who were very used to growing up using living rooms as sleeping spaces. This is not an issue at all. It is about parents enforcing routine and children knowing where they sleep and where they have a safe space. This can be a shared bedroom with an allocated bed which is clean with sheets and pillow cases etc. or knowing at the end of the day the living room becomes their bedroom. What it is not is when they become tired just having to find anywhere they can find to try and sleep.

I have only had my own room for 3 years - at 18-21 when I went to Teacher Training College.
Then I got married !
I am now 64 and for 61 years of those 64 I have shared a bedroom !!!
Private house too except for first 3 years of marriage which was a council house.