No set bedrooms?

[SouthernFashionista]

In a court case that is currently ongoing there was mention of a situation where individuals in a house had no set bed or bedroom and everyone just slept ‘wherever’. The thoughts of it bothered me. I think every child needs their own space. I know it’s clearly symptomatic of a chaotic household and lifestyle. Is this something many of you have come across? AIBU for being shocked?

[quote Helpstopthepain]@BigYellowHat that’s awful[/quote]
Tell me about it. When we raise it with her we get yelled at like we’re the crazy ones!

@TirednWorried

My child doesn't have a bed.... We cosleep didnt realise that was neglect

I think it is . A child of 4 should have there own bed even if they dont want to sleep in it. The option should be there for them to not have to cosleep

No it’s not.

There are families who have different cultural backgrounds who this is normal to share a bed.

There are people who can’t afford to not share a bed.

That isn’t the same as having no dedicated sleep space/spaces (if it’s bed hoping style of sleep for some families).

As long as kids know they have a safe space to sleep each night it’s not neglect. That’s really unfair accusation to aim at the pp and isn’t what the op is referencing.

OP I think I am following the same court case as you. In the house with no set beds the baby in question seemed to have been loved, happy and reasonably well cared for. When she moved into a separate house she had we own bedroom, her own cot, was in a set routine (complete with sleep training) and this is the house in which she was terribly abused.
Yes the first house sounded chaotic but it wasn’t the horror she experienced after she left that house.

@loislovesstewie

I think the point being made is that in some dysfunctional families it's a case of the person who gets to something first uses it whether it's beds, clothes, personal items. I've met families where the first child up in the morning grabs clean clothes from a heap and if the others don't get any clean then they dive into the 'dirty' pile. The same with beds, if you get into a bed it's yours otherwise you might not get into a bed for the night. It really is chaotic and symptomatic of not understanding the needs of the children.

Yep.

The phrase 'first up, best dressed' was very common where I was brought up.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

Without that I fear utter chaos and, no doubt, serious implications for their well-being.

You haven't acknowledged that it's totally normal in many cultures for people not to have their own beds and to sleep wherever they fancy each night.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

I'm honestly genuinely interested.

What cultures is this common in?

And do the families live in Britain, with the children expected to attend normal school hours?

Cultural context needs to be taken account.

I have family that lives abroad. The norm there is for families, and often extended families, to live in small accommodation. It's a game of musical beds every night, with multiple sofa beds everywhere that are made up each night. Usually two/three people/children to a sofa bed, which are the size of double beds. Everyone seems very happy with arrangement.

Can anyone link to the news article about the court case bein mentioned?

@Whatinthelord

Can anyone link to the news article about the court case bein mentioned?

I believe it is the Star Hobson case but if it gets discussed specifically on here the thread will be pulled

@Whatinthelord I think it is the murder of Star Hobson. A 16 month old baby. She was not living in the chaotic house with her in laws when she was murdered, in fact the chaotic extended family repeatedly reported her mother and her partner to social services. She appeared to be reasonably well cared for in the chaotic house.

@whatinthelord it's the Star Hobson case

@julieca it happens occasionally. Not often though. More likely they will share if my son wants to sleep in my daughters room and she also wants to sleep there. No one is that attached to any one bed to be honest though. They are all lovely rooms/beds.

@Cordeliathecat I think everyone needs the option of their own space that is theirs.

I think there's many interpretations of chaos abd routine. But routine can be as strict as what time do you do everything or as loose as you know it will get done. I think when referring to routine/chaos in neglect cases, it's literally no routine. The child doesn't know if they will be picked up from school? They don't know if they'll have a meal that night, they don't know where they'll sleep or if they will. That's serious chaos. LOL chaos is we never know who's going to pick them up, or who's going to cook or how many will be there for dinner or what we'll have or what time- open door policy, big huge family all having fun but fundamentally the child knows they're looked after.

My two wouldn't sleep apart they had a bedroom each but chose to share so I put in twin beds for one room the other had a bed and most of the toys.

@julieca @SouthernFashionista The kids were all fed cooked meals but by chaotic I mean everyone was fed at different times, there were loads of people coming/going, no set rules on who did what/when, very loud household, but everyone had clean clothes and there was always cooked food to eat and the house was regularly cleaned and the kids were loved by the many adults who lived there.

A lot of my relatives grew up like that. In India most houses don’t have bedrooms & their families replicated it in the UK. They slept wherever was convenient. Women and girls tended to get bedrooms where possible but only elderly ppl or pregnant / breastfeeding women were guaranteed a bed. The boys would sleep anywhere they found a space - my friend shared bathtub at night with a younger brother. But they were loved so much by their whole family.

@ThatsAllFolks

Not everyone, but in my house I sleep wherever no one else is sleeping. No designated bedroom for me. Kids have tho

Seriously? Are you not concerned about what example that gives your children? Boundaries are extremely important

@shiningjustforyou

I've seen it a lot in overcrowded homes or separated parents. Mostly with people on UC who can't afford a larger property. Parents sleeping on sofas, sharing with kids, kids without a wardrobe or somewhere quiet to do homework.

It's very common.

Excuse you?! The people who live like this may well be on UC but I can assure you that not all of us who receive it, live ANYTHING like this!!! I'm severely disabled and have zero choice but to claim UC disability, despite having previously had a very decent career! Please educate yourself and do not stereotype

This gets me too! Yes you should have your bed but sharing a room with a sibling was pretty normal amongst my friends and family.

@Cordeliathecat

Everyone sleeps wherever in this house. We all have our own bedroom where we keep our personal belongings but we don’t necessarily sleep there. We have a large 5 bed house. We are a family of 4 with 2 guest rooms. Sometimes kids share a room, sometime one of them is in with us, sometimes we are all separate. We are not a chaotic household, but the whole house is all of ours and each one of us can sleep where we like on any given night. I don’t think that’s weird or neglectful.

It's perhaps not neglectful per se, it is weird though. It's not teaching children anything about boundaries & personal space. Also autonomy. I don't know the age of your kids, but let's say once your eldest begins puberty and wants their privacy but finds your youngest in their bed. How do you think the eldest will feel? Yes the younger child can be moved of course, but they shouldn't need to be moved! That's just how I see it

Even the most chaotic people on the street have a pattern of where they sleep, so I would be surprised if the kids really had no pattern. They might not officially have a bed or personal sleep space, but they will make one. Most animals, especially birds and mammals, will make a nest or bed to sleep in, even the nomadic ones will return to the same spots or follow the same travel pattern. So in order to have nobody ever have their personal sleep space it would take a lot of work to go against the child's nature. Of course this is not true of very little ones, who will sleep wherever their parent (or whoever else they have bonded to) is. But then there safe space is that person, their bed is their bed.

but the whole house is all of ours and each one of us can sleep where we like on any given night
It is weird and, as a pp said; boundary less.
The family home shouldn't be a commune with no nod to personal space.

In places where a family is very poor and there are no bedrooms e.g. just one room, of course children will not have a designated bed. But in some places children drink from puddles, or use communal toilets.
In Britain lots of children share bedrooms, that is normal. But having a designated bed does matter. That bed can be shared, but it is still their bed where they sleep.

It is my experience of families living in cramped accommodation such as council b n b, there might not be much space for a desk or whatever, but people will usually sleep and store their things in a pattern. Yes mum might sleep on the sofa, but it's not constantly changing. It is unusual for people not to start into some sort of pattern, whether that pattern is all co sleeping a night or passing out in front of the tv. There is a pattern to it

[quote lescompagnonsdeloue]@ShinyHappyPoster weird that you don't seem to think that British culture exists? Why is that? There are cultural norms in the UK same as everywhere else. Your tea probably will come with milk, that sort of stuff. You probably have a bed where you usually sleep. It's a cultural norm in the UK. Saying that is true, not racist.[/quote]
I think the problem is that you don't appreciate that Britain; the UK and England are all different entities. You seem to be confusing English with British. There are cultural differences across the different nations that make up the UK and then even more differences between different communities who live here.