Women in 'men's' jobs

[WhiteVanWoman91]

Leading on from the thread about why trade/construction jobs aren't more widely considered outside of the working class, I feel the same way that they're never really something us females are ever told much about.

WC lads often do pretty shit at school, but then end up ok after finding a trade. Maybe not earning £100k bigshot money but £40k+. However, I feel wc class women often end up in shit retail jobs or serving coffee etc.

I'm a female trucker in the construction industry, getting all my qualifications for site management etc. Trying to decide whether I'd rather be in transport or site management. But right now I love my job and earn circa £40k in an environment I Iike. Hate offices tbh.

I think despite people saying that male dominated sectors are hostile to women, I reckon many wc women would feel less intimidated in the sort of environment I work in than in a corporate office. They'd be working with the kind of guys they're married to, grew up with, and less likely to feel looked down on - people tend to be pretty snobby in this country even if most people claim to value 'diversity'.

I feel like a lot of women moan about 'not enough women in xyz sector' but not many want to lead by example. Will post some pics of some of the women I find inspirational as they seem to be pretty much ignored despite all the talk of male dominated this and that.

Good idea for a thread - looking forward to your pictures!

I agree OP that gender gaps in professions almost exclusively look at middle/upper class professions and how to encourage more women to do male dominated careers. Working class have been neglected in that respect and so the working class professions still are very male or female dominated. It’s time to look at that. I see no reason why we can’t have more female HGV drivers, wind farm workers, plumbers, electricians, carpenters and so on.

Manager in male sector here. Tbh I used to be more optimistic but seeing the attitudes of senior leadership (now I'm exposed to it directly as "new" senior manger level) I can see why there's a talent shortage and retention issue which will not be fixed in my lifetime.

A basic example, client site visits having no female toilet. Basic stuff and women aren't exactly that rare these days, especially at lower levels.

The concept of having e.g. a breast milk pumping room when I went back after maternity leave is like an alien concept to my world of work.

"Wc lads do shit at school" maybe this should be looked at rather than tired clichés that poor/working class boys should just "do a trade"......

I was a hospital porter, the only female one in my NHS trust. Previous to that, I applied to portering jobs, I was told in an interview that cleaning would be more suitable. One interviewer even blatantly sized up my arms, and said that I would be be expected to push a patient in a bed alone, up steep hills... which is utter bullshit.

more female HGV drivers, wind farm workers, plumbers, electricians, carpenters and so on.

Lots of practical barriers and stuff that puts my female engineers off staying in the sector tbh. Example offered above

Will post some pics of some of the women I find inspirational as they seem to be pretty much ignored despite all the talk of male dominated this and that.

Looking forward to it!

I agree OP. We have a female refuse collector now, and why not.

It's not that women don't want to lead by example it's they can't.
We are penalised by our reproductive capacity.
We may want to do those jobs and have the skills and knowledge to do those jobs but we may need to take time out...men don't don't. That's why they are favoured.

OP, in your industry, what are the expected working hours? Could a parent (male or female) arrive at 9:15, after the school run? And take leave if a child is sick? Part of the reason women end up in poorly paid jobs is the flexibility that they allow for anyone with caring responsibilities.

In my experience the construction industry is very sexist and it would be very difficult to work in a trade as a woman. I may be generalising but men in these types of jobs don't take well to a woman being as good if not better than them, which frankly isn't difficult. Lastly I have found that men don't want to deal with a woman and certainly don't want to be told what to do by one.

I’ve also often thought of this. I remember a study that showed that the gender gap between WC men and women is much larger then MC men and women.

The reason for that is that, like you said, wc women end up in badly paid jobs, at best beauty salons and at worst cleaning. There is a whole world of trade professions where they could be making good money.

But you can never visualise yourself in that kind of job if you don’t see examples. Also, many of the blue collar professions aren’t welcoming to women. When I was young most mechanics had page 3 calendars in their garages and it was offputting, the message being that women weren’t welcome.

Getting women into those lucrative jobs would go a long way to closing the non-like-for-like gender wage gap.

Based on watching a few female friends and family members who have entered different trades (electrician and carpentry) there is a strong lad culture. This has lead to them to further education. The ones that have been successful and stayed in the trade are the ones that go to work in the family business.

Primary school got a female caretaker and she made the male caretakers look like a pair of utter clowns. Why not more female caretakers?

I work in a male dominated industry (although a third are women in my building) and it winds me up the victim mentality that everyone assumes I am achieving in a man's world it's my world that women have chosen not to partake in. I rewired a house signed off by an electrician and my friends say aren't you getting a man round to do it???? Wtf!!! I accept there are some things my physical strength would make difficult compared to a stronger on average male. I would maybe carry less bricks take longer to change a car wheel. But technical tasks no way. That said I hate the patronising and the well done you being able to do a technical job. I have a friend who is a female engineer who hates the fact that people hold her up as an example of diversity and feminism and is disproportionately in photoshoots for the company. She is a great engineer regardless of her skin colour or sex which has nothing to do with it yet this is what hr choose to highlight. She would rather be treated like anyone else of her seniority. Her sister is also a engineer in an entirely different field and has similar comments apparently.

I also think it's institutional. We need more women in these jobs. Then there will be more female managers. Schools are often really gender biased and guide students to "suitable" education.

I had a female friend who went to agricultural college and got a job working in the field. She was fabulous at her job, and could easily carry two massive sacks of pig feed. She stuck at the role through horrendous misogynistic, sexist, bullying for years. Far longer than I would have, but eventually it broke her and she now works on the till at Tesco. Her management team tried to be supportive, but they could not change the attitudes of the men she worked with, and in the end it was easier for her to be 'allowed' to leave than have to fire almost their entire workforce. I'd quite like to be an electrician but I'm not sure I could find a team who would want to support a female apprentice.

For my old car the specialist mechanic who did servicing and maintenance on it was a woman.

She was very experienced and used to go and do talks at schools about women in the car industry, and female mechanics especially. One of her 'things' was trying to get girls interested in maintenance as a career.

She often said that she came back from these talks a bit dispirited, although every so often she reckoned there was a spark of interest from a girl who hadn't considered it was something she 'could do'.

In the Q&As she always got the same comments from the girls -- dirty work, badly paid, don't want to be the only girl, 'only lesbians do that' (!!!). The odd stupid remark about ruining nails and hair. I think she felt she was fighting against prejudices that were pretty deeply ingrained, as well as having to counter some actually quite reasonable observations and objections.

I am the only female in my team

In my previous job, there were very few females

Issues that may stop females;

No experience in that area of work
12 hour shifts across days & nights 24x7x365
No option for part time role
Historically, a male dominated industry
Need to be strong, independent, communicate well, multi task

There is actually no reason why other females could not do my job role

There is also a race element here as well. It is relatively unusual to have non-white builders/tradespeople. Yet many builders I know earn great money.

There was a discussion about this on Radio 4 a few months ago where they had a black builder on. There was a combination of feeling out of place as the only black guy workplace in the team and also manual labour being looked down upon within the black community.

Forgot to add, that I work in an Engineering role

I am a senior woman in a very male dominated STEM field that engages a lot with construction. My observations are that many of these careers still have a long way to go to be suitable for those with caring responsibilities (typical women) however things are changing and improving. We have some really good women in construction activities in our region for example that are bring more women into the area. My team is now 50:50 male to female including my my team leads under me. I am regularly seeing more female faces on construction and operational sites but it is still a minority and they tend to be in more junior roles and younger. I know they exists, but I've yet to visit a site with a female site manager and so would encourage OP to consider becoming one.

A basic example, client site visits having no female toilet. Basic stuff and women aren't exactly that rare these days, especially at lower levels.

This is the story of my life to be fair. I try not to have to use them. The lads seem mostly happy to piss on the seat and avoid needing a no2 onsite. Guessing they must nip to Tesco at lunch and then hold it in through the pm if necessary. Not sure I want to know!

But I'm not just talking about graduate women doing office jobs in male sectors. I'm talking about ladies that can jump in a digger and drive it like a boss.

I can gallop on a horse
I've ridden an elephant & a camel
I've got motorbikes & cars

I'm pretty sure that I could drive a; monster truck, caterpillar digger, tank, amphibious vehicle !

However, I am NOT the sort of person to work in a hair dresser or child related job