Women in 'men's' jobs

[WhiteVanWoman91]

Leading on from the thread about why trade/construction jobs aren't more widely considered outside of the working class, I feel the same way that they're never really something us females are ever told much about.

WC lads often do pretty shit at school, but then end up ok after finding a trade. Maybe not earning £100k bigshot money but £40k+. However, I feel wc class women often end up in shit retail jobs or serving coffee etc.

I'm a female trucker in the construction industry, getting all my qualifications for site management etc. Trying to decide whether I'd rather be in transport or site management. But right now I love my job and earn circa £40k in an environment I Iike. Hate offices tbh.

I think despite people saying that male dominated sectors are hostile to women, I reckon many wc women would feel less intimidated in the sort of environment I work in than in a corporate office. They'd be working with the kind of guys they're married to, grew up with, and less likely to feel looked down on - people tend to be pretty snobby in this country even if most people claim to value 'diversity'.

I feel like a lot of women moan about 'not enough women in xyz sector' but not many want to lead by example. Will post some pics of some of the women I find inspirational as they seem to be pretty much ignored despite all the talk of male dominated this and that.

Sadly, sometimes WC women are the ones driving this.

I worked in a construction company that did a annual work experience week for 15/16 year old. It had been rather ad-hoc, with boys applying as they were interested in construction, and girls coming in to sit with their admin role Mums.

I was asked to run it. I stopped the informal 'come in with Mum' route and made them all apply formally. I arranged a 5 day rotation with a mix of technical roles such as site management, project management or design, a corporate day such as accounts, HR or marketing, and a support role day such as admin, reception, or post/print room.

The technical teams were delighted to finally get some girls.

Where was the pushback? The female admins. They weren't happy with their girls not just sitting with them. A couple really really didn't want the boys because 'boys will be bored' and mainly 'it's a waste of time as boys won't do admin when they leave school'. I stuck to my guns.

Had amazing feedback from all of the kids including having their eyes opened to the huge variety of jobs out in the real world.

[quote Bargaincatfood]@WhiteVanWoman91 that's an attitude which comes easily to you. If you have anxiety, depression, low self esteem or are just really young then it's much harder to have that self belief that you can go against the naysayers.
Fwiw I work in a prison environment. Now I can walk onto the communal areas and feel the leers/ hatred and not be bothered. There's no way I could do this at 18. My colleague was folllowed home by someone's visitor who then fed back to them where she lived. The reason women feel scared in a lot of male dominated spaces is because men are scary. The news proves this!
I would completely understand why a 17 year old apprentice, who is navigating her sexual boundaries and might have been coerced or abused in the past, wouldn't want to be alone in a workplace with a load of men. [/quote]
I totally agree and think that the (majority white collar) mums of mn don't consider it enough. My (female) friend is a decorator and it's a great job for her - but she has had to be alone with large groups of men on sites making inappropriate jokes, or be alone with a home owner who is hitting on her.

There are many lovely plumbers out there - but would your 16 year old be confident as an apprentice spending a lot of her time accompanying an older man she doesn't know well, or working alone in a house with a landlord who makes letchy comments when he comes to see her kneeling on the floor to fix something with her head down and hips up? Would you be encouraging it? Some systems need to change too before girls will take up these posts.

Hollyhocksarenotmessy

Interesting input.

All the companies I have worked for have had very proactive links to local schools and colleges where work experience opportunities and career talks were regularly presented. From my experience it was the boys who were generally more interested in the prospect of a career in 'big engineering', working with cutting edge technology and the opportunity of overseas travel. Often the girls attending despite studying the correct subjects (maths, physics etc) just did not seem that bothered and often went off to uni to some humanities subject that was related to the third non STEM A Level they were studying.

It was interesting when chatting to the non British female engineers in my office as to why they choose engineering as a career. More often then not it was parental pressure for them to study something 'hard' and with solid career prospects. Ironically despite coming from what can be described as very patriarchal societies they have all ended up working in male dominated fields. There is one Malaysian women I work with who wanted to study French & French Literature until her parents said no way and pushed her into STEM. She was resentful at first but in hindsight she thanks her parents intervention. She now loves her job as she is on very good money which in turn has given her options, she has travelled the world and generally in a very good place. She still loves French culture and literature and pursues those interests in her private time.

@FarEscape2945, it isn't about being a more feminine nature. It's wanting the workplace culture (if not society) to change and only official complaints will do that. We don't accept racism, we shouldn't accept sexism.

@Changemusthappen

In my experience the construction industry is very sexist and it would be very difficult to work in a trade as a woman. I may be generalising but men in these types of jobs don't take well to a woman being as good if not better than them, which frankly isn't difficult. Lastly I have found that men don't want to deal with a woman and certainly don't want to be told what to do by one.

Which seems to apply to the way the women in the admin jobs in their offices are treated too

DillonPanthersTexas

It’s a shame that your female engineering graduates want a 9 to 5 job - that really isn’t what engineering is about. I fell into civils after uni and worked on some unusual and interesting projects, and picked up some very niche skills, always lots of varied site work across the UK but involving long hours.

I’ve been lucky enough to do some overseas and a bit of offshore stuff (just a few days at a time), but by that point I was mum to a toddler and it wasn’t very compatible with family life.

Add in that around the same time DH’s career had taken a huge leap forward (both career wise and financially) which required lots of overseas travel and one of us had to step back.

I may be generalising but men in these types of jobs don't take well to a woman being as good if not better than them, which frankly isn't difficult.

So I'm assuming you've run a successful construction business then?

My truck fresh from a respray....

I think it's alright if you get a truck driving job with fairly regular hours (I'm guessing yours is OP? I may be wrong!), but especially at the moment, new passes generally have to choose between trunking jobs with unsociable hours or multi drops consisting of 10+ hours shifts. It's a bit better if you have your class 1 I guess, but even with trunking, it's going to be hard to coincide toilet breaks with tacho breaks/POA all the time, and women don't really have the same options as male drivers when it comes to needing to go while driving/not at services. 🙈
All in all, there are so many problems in the HGV industry that need to be addressed before it becomes attractive and worthwhile again, to men and women.

£40k with no office bullshit or needing to manage other people is well worth it to me. I've got mates who don't earn much over £30k who have to jump through all sorts of hoops at work. Like my mate who is managed by a poison fatty who micromanages everything and makes her life a misery.

Stopping at the services for a wee is no worse for a truck driver than a sales rep on the motorway all day.

@CheeseMmmm

Pregnant women surely need to stop work earlier and take more recovery time if in a physically demanding job, than an office job. In retail move to a less physical job if in warehouse etc.

A 5 month pregnant woman working as a roofer surely sounds like not a great idea...

More importantly, self-employment doesn't tend to come with maternity pay. £151.97 allowance per week is not going to support a new family.

@WhiteVanWoman91I havent read all the comments yet , and while I agree with some of your points I find this line
However, I feel wc class women often end up in shit retail jobs or serving coffee etc Down right offensive

Next time you go to a cafe / service station / supermarket just remember that line , do you really think that everyone in that kind of service industry ( or any other 'low status' job) are doing a shit job

Plus I mentioned earlier. Aside from the fact that class is pretty loosely defined and means different things to different people.

If we're talking women with parents who didn't go past a levels, do the sort of jobs that OP says are crappy, with oh on trades for example. And not got degree /a levels themselves.

I have met loads of women in my life from that sort of background with all sorts of jobs. Jobs that I imagine OP would see as MC office jobs.

It's all about stereotypes which are not a great thing to go by.

It’s one thing having women drive massive trucks (I have utmost admiration for anyone with that much spatial awareness) but I’d be worried about certain trades from a safety perspective if going into peoples homes. What about that side of things?

The other way around though- I suspect many women who live alone would like to have the option of hiring a woman if it's something in the house. I would- I look but there's so few about. There was a site for women plumbers etc years ago but hardly anyone on it. I suspect their pool of customers is small due to.. well back to sexism isn't it.

Remember when more women started being airline pilots loads of people saying they felt unhappy if a woman pilot taking them on hols.