Women in 'men's' jobs

[WhiteVanWoman91]

Leading on from the thread about why trade/construction jobs aren't more widely considered outside of the working class, I feel the same way that they're never really something us females are ever told much about.

WC lads often do pretty shit at school, but then end up ok after finding a trade. Maybe not earning £100k bigshot money but £40k+. However, I feel wc class women often end up in shit retail jobs or serving coffee etc.

I'm a female trucker in the construction industry, getting all my qualifications for site management etc. Trying to decide whether I'd rather be in transport or site management. But right now I love my job and earn circa £40k in an environment I Iike. Hate offices tbh.

I think despite people saying that male dominated sectors are hostile to women, I reckon many wc women would feel less intimidated in the sort of environment I work in than in a corporate office. They'd be working with the kind of guys they're married to, grew up with, and less likely to feel looked down on - people tend to be pretty snobby in this country even if most people claim to value 'diversity'.

I feel like a lot of women moan about 'not enough women in xyz sector' but not many want to lead by example. Will post some pics of some of the women I find inspirational as they seem to be pretty much ignored despite all the talk of male dominated this and that.

@ripples101

It’s about time that people woke up.

Workers are selling to the employers THE most valuable commodity.

And that is Time.

And every single one of us is guilty of not valuing the time that we are prepared to give.

Do any job you want. Nothing is stopping you. Nothing.

And if traditionally male trades pay more, then infiltrate those “male” trades.

If you want to.

It’s all bollocks really. It’s self fullfilling prophecies. If workers actually valued their worth - as a collective - well what do you think will happen?

Indeed. It's interesting in the trucking sector that the shortage reaching critical levels has resulted in drivers shunning those companies that take the piss.

I used to do some agency work for a local company who would take the piss. E.g. tell you they'd send a driver to rescue you if you ran out of driving hours when doing an extra collection which wasn't on the list. Then they'd say "sorry, everyone's gone home now, you'll have to spend a night out". Fell out with them eventually after them pulling this on a Friday night and not answering the phone - I left the truck in a layby and got picked up by a mate, and apparently the tank then got siphoned by the travellers camp down the road costing the company about £250 in diesel and causing the next morning's run to fail. 🤭

Well, I bumped into the MD at the petrol station the other day driving one of the wagon's (clearly can't get drivers) and had to give him a cheeky comment! His angry little face. 😂

As a MC woman who works in a male dominated industry I'd say sexism is a huge problem amongst WC men, far more so than among MC ones (or maybe more overt). And the sexism they show WC women is even worse than that I've experienced and I've experienced plenty over the years.

@Pokemonpoolparty

It's institutional and it will take time to break. But it is happening. I am 40 and was young and naive enough in my 20s to think women and men were equal. My DH has worked in the council for almost 20 years. When he started, male refuse collectors received a bonus. Because they were men. And God forbid they be paid the same as women on the same scale.

Now there are female drivers and refuse collectors. But I'd say that's only been in the last five years, after a female head of service came in. So it's changing. But change will take time.

I think it might depend what region you are in. In the Midlands you see women in trades every so often, more so than ever before. In the north? Forget it. Women and girls up there are all there to make the place look pretty and those few of us who have a thought in our heads beyond nails, hair and make up do not have an easy time of it in social circles. You can forget the idea of men taking women seriously in trades. I think it is much worse now than it was in the 80s, when at least consumerist pressures were lower, perhaps due to the brain drain out of the north.

@AreYouRightThereSkippy

Oooooooh it's a bit weird this thread has popped up just now.

I'm in hospitality and absolutely love my job. But lately I've been seriously considering a career change as I want to drive an HGV.

I've just turned 38. Don't know if I've left it too late? Anyway, thanks for the thread. I'll go back and read it properly.

Well, I imagine you're used to longish hours already. You can absolutely learn to drive a truck at 38. It's not true that you need a Class 1 license to make good money as many people seem to think.

For standard deliveries I'd absolutely go Class 1 and do motorway runs to big depots/RDC over stressful high street drops for much less money. However, when you get to construction (mixers etc) and more specialised areas (rigid water tankers used by Severn Trent etc) you can make good money without the crazy hours.

Depend if you'd rather do 45 hour weeks for £35-£40k or 60 hour weeks for £50k. Obv you may have to do a few crap jobs to get experience, although likely less than previously due to demand for drivers.

I agree, OP.

Traditional "women" jobs like nursing and teaching certainly have much larger male presence now- despite the lower pay- but not the other way around.

As a MC woman who works in a male dominated industry I'd say sexism is a huge problem amongst WC men, far more so than among MC ones (or maybe more overt). And the sexism they show WC women is even worse than that I've experienced and I've experienced plenty over the years.

I think MC men might just be better trained to hide their sexism whereas WC people are less likely to censor ourselves.

I started off working admin in construction and progressed to qualifying as a Estate Manager/Rural Surveyor managing farms and country estates in what is traditionally a male role.

I did it up until I had my first child because realistically it isn’t compatible with having children. Whilst an assistant estate manager I heard the hiring committee saying that women couldn’t ever be Estate Managers, I’ve have had farmers completely disregard me because of my sex.

Thankfully the younger generation of farmers around my age (20s) don’t really hold the same views. I do know some female friends that were put off because of it during training.

@Porcupineintherough

As a MC woman who works in a male dominated industry I'd say sexism is a huge problem amongst WC men, far more so than among MC ones (or maybe more overt). And the sexism they show WC women is even worse than that I've experienced and I've experienced plenty over the years.

I work in a male dominated profession/sector, probably described as middle class. I’d say there’s less obvious sexism, certainly workplace harassment is less of a problem that it used to be. But there’s definitely an underlying level of unconscious (or conscious in some instances) bias. Always picking a man for the high profile projects. Taking other men out to meet clients. Forgetting (or choosing not to) invite women to meetings. And the constant back slapping amongst the men is nauseating. And the constant emails that start with “Gents” gives me the absolute rage.

Sometimes I just want to give up the fight. I’m in a senior role now and feel like it’s a constant battle to get the same opportunities and recognition as the men. But then I remind myself that nothing will ever change if some of us don’t keep trying.

I’d love to see more women in trades. It’s shockingly bad here in Scotland, though I have seen more women apprentices in renewable energy courses. My DH’s workplace got its first ever female apprentice and there were no changing facilities etc for her, so makeshift ones were put up quick. Prior to that, female applicants got rejected for bullshit reasons as they couldn’t be bothered to make changes. Think the one that started got in as they had literally no reason to reject her and knew they were being watched. They only recently took down a porno wall 🙄 This is at the biggest engineering sites in Scotland, if not UK.

Tbf, I used to have a topless photo of Channing Tatum at my desk. But it was more to make the men uncomfortable.

A friend of mine worked for the fire service. She had an awful time there due to sexism. I was really surprised when she told me as she's pretty tough and can hold her own. She only had one colleague there everyone else shunned her.

Incidentally my son is taking computer science and engineering GCSEs at school and there are no girls in either of these classes. I, and at least 3 of my female friends took computer science 40 years ago in school.

Also as a child I remember having a female post lady. Are we going backwards I wonder?

My husband is a manager in waste management, out of over 300 staff only 4 are women, 1 manager, 1 office staff and 2 operatives. Very very few women apply when the jobs are advertised. The 2 female operatives were the only women who applied in the last batch. But yet, as a public sector body, they get vilified for not having more women. Its a no win situation for him.

I work in very male dominated industry. I'm mid twenties been doing it a few years and had enough. Men are mean/dirty and sexist. You try and give it back and they say your rude. There has been no facilities for me at work to change in a year's I've been there and the comments you hear if 'wome
from the office' turned up make you wanna be sick. Especially ones about women they don't find attractive

I used to work in an FE college that offered bricklaying, motor mechanics, electrician training etc.

The students were 100% male and the lecturers. It was really really blokey in those areas. When I had to go in for something they all stared. Atmosphere changed. One of the lecturers was extremely hostile. Even though my job to go in sometimes he would get really aggressive about me intruding.

Yes young women could do it but imo they'd need to be hard as nails.

Yes young women could do it but imo they'd need to be hard as nails.

True but many wc women are in jobs where they interact with these men all day already. Like women working in cafs or the women in transport office at work.

One of the main issues with the construction industry is, a lot of the work is difficult to do with the flexibility that is required for a working parent. Sites start at 7am and often involve a lot of travelling. You can’t just knock off at 2.30 to do the school run.

I’m a construction professional and applied for a job with a main contractor. Even though I was site office based, there was an unwillingness to offer any flexibility. I do the almost identical job but on the client side and there is no reason the job can’t be done flexibly as I’m doing it now. It is definitely still very much a man’s world on site and blaming any woman for not wanting to go in to that is ridiculous.

Also with the trades I don't think there are roles that you need to be pretty strong. So of course some women could do it but not all, so the pool is not the whole female population in the first place iyswim.

Sometimes because just manually heavy work which eg a 5 foot 7 stone woman would not be great. And secondly because so many tools etc are man size as it were.

Eg I am good at practical things but when it comes to things like fixing something involving things plumbed in I can never undo things that have been screwed man- tight. And DH drill I can barely pick up. And if you're drilling something really hard it's just easier if you're stronger and heavier etc.

So not saying women can't of course but it's a subset who are physically suited given so many areas like that involve things where the way it works is suited to men.

I did meet a female electrician I hired (I try to hire women for this stuff) and she was great. She had been police SO19 left because treated so badly (sexism).

True but many wc women are in jobs where they interact with these men all day already. Like women working in cafs or the women in transport office at work.

Comparing these two interactions makes me wonder how much time you’ve actually spent on site day to day. Having seen how female sparks, joiners, plumbers are treated and what they have to put up with, is entirely different from what those working in the canteen face.

I am a site manager in construction, in my entire 20 year career I have only met 3 other female site agents/managers. Most of the females I meet are either office/admin staff.

There has been a massive drive for women in engineering, which I believe have been slightly successful. Most women engineers I know in the construction side of things do not actually attend site.

I’m pretty sure I have heard it all about women on site before, you do have to have a certain disposition to deal with it day in and day out.

Also with the trades I don't think there are roles that you need to be pretty strong.

The work is physical, but as a tradie, the manual handling rules do mean you aren’t shifting heavy weights. Most women would be physically capable of most jobs on site. Labouring might be the most difficult.

Most men can do female dominated jobs perfectly well but with many that's still relatively unusual. So it goes both ways.

Eg I've never met s male PA even though it's a job that can be v lucrative if you're good.

Off the top of my head I know 4 female hgv drivers, 2 female plumbers and 1 female sparky, I’ve yet to meet one female bricklayer (I’m sure there must be a few) and I have never met a female ground worker.

Not sure I'd fancy construction or warehousing tbh. I don't have to unload my truck so no really physical work for me.

@BoredZelda

Also with the trades I don't think there are roles that you need to be pretty strong.

The work is physical, but as a tradie, the manual handling rules do mean you aren’t shifting heavy weights. Most women would be physically capable of most jobs on site. Labouring might be the most difficult.

If manual handling rules mean any woman doesn't do the heavy work then she's not going to be popular is she! I mean. On a small site etc. And not working for a company. Who's going to hire her?

It's not reasonable to say that a 5 foot 7 stone woman could be a roofer lugging tiles up etc if... Manual handling says she should only take half the amount an average sized man could!

I retrained as a gardener in my 30s. I'm not sure if gardening counts as a trade or male dominated, but it's a different kind of job to what most women choose. And I love it so I'm just going to give it a little plug...

I think gardening is dominated a bit by men with vans and power tools, so I was a bit nervous about it, but it has been really easy to find work. I have many customers who say they feel more comfortable with a woman and who recommend me to their friends, so I don't advertise but I am regularly turning work away.

I normally work on my own, so have no problem with colleagues being sexist. And I have a little network now of other female gardeners I've met over the years. I'm self employed so set my own rates and choose when I want to work. Downsides are just the weather and the lack of things like sick or holiday pay. I would encourage any woman who was interested to get into gardening, it's fun and healthy and really rewarding.