Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be fed up with people misgendering DP (not trans)

503 replies

SarahAndQuack · 12/11/2021 22:56

My partner is female, as am I, and we have a daughter who recently started school. DP has always had the odd person be confused about her gender, but when we got together there was a big surge in people assuming she was a man, and when DD was born, even more so. DD is nearly five now, and I still find people glance at DP and assume she's a man. I'm posting because one of the school mums - and DD goes to a tiny rural school so there are only a handful of us - has still not clocked that DP is a woman. I was at the school gate chatting and she asked about my husband, so I replied my partner's a woman, and she clearly didn't know what to say.

I find it frustrating because, if you actually bother to look at DP, you can see she's a woman. She always wears jeans or trousers (but women's jeans or trousers), and usually a shirt or a hoodie. Sometimes the shirts are from the menswear section, but the hoodies are generally Seasalt women's. Her hair is short, but so is mine, and no one ever mistakes me for a man. She wears unisex doc martens, but so do lots of women. She's all of 5'8 so not exactly a towering masculine height.

I am aware people misgender her mostly out of kneejerk, unconscious bias: they see one woman (me) and another person, and they automatically decide the other person must be a man. Or they see me and DD and decide the other person must be the dad.

But it's really starting to bother me, because DD is getting old enough to start wondering about what people say, and she is trying to understand what makes someone a man or a woman. She is getting a clear message that her mum is doing womanhood 'wrong', and that people don't think she is a woman, and she's started asking us why. I don't know what to say - and I don't know how to respond to people misgendering DP in a way that is still friendly, but does get across that it's not ok?

OP posts:
SarahAndQuack · 12/11/2021 23:56

@LolaButt

If I was constantly misgendered, I would have to look at the motivation behind it. The majority of people surely would not maliciously misgender me.

So I would just have to suck it up. That people aren’t aware of my biological sex based solely on my appearance.

I certainly don't think it's malicious - but I also don't think sucking it up is working quite.
OP posts:
namechangerforthisconfessionn · 12/11/2021 23:57

@SarahAndQuack try not to worry about your DD, my oldest DC has a classmate who has 2 mums,
My DC came back from school (aged 5ish) and said so and so has 2 mums and no dad and so and so has a mum and a grandad and that was it, classmate never had any kids say anything to them kids seem to accept what they are told so tell DD to tell people she has 2 mums. Sorry your DP is upset it's a shame adults aren't more like children Thanks

PieMistee · 12/11/2021 23:58

I'm sorry you can't get married in a church. I hadn't realised the Church of England was so backward.

Viviennemary · 12/11/2021 23:59

The point is if she looks more like a man than a woman then its not surprising folk think she is a man.

Borland · 13/11/2021 00:00

We'd love to get married, but we're Church of England, and the Church doesn't marry gay couples.

Sorry I know this isn't the point of your OP but why do you support a church that doesn't support your relationship and won't let you get married even though that's what you want?

Mammyloveswine · 13/11/2021 00:00

@PieMistee

I'm sorry you can't get married in a church. I hadn't realised the Church of England was so backward.
I don't think any church offer same sex marriages yet??
LubaLuca · 13/11/2021 00:00

I think you're seeing feminine detail in your partner that other people (understandably) don't from looking at her in the usual way that strangers look at each other. Presumably she's mistaken for a man in various situations - when she's on her own, with friends etc. It doesn't happen just when she's with you, I'm guessing, so it's not just people assuming an obvious woman must be a man because she's partnered with a lady in a dress.

Mammyloveswine · 13/11/2021 00:01

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

I am struggling to see how someone who's in the act of breastfeeding looks masculine.

Me too tbh. But clearly there must be something. Unless the waitress couldn’t actually tell your DP was breastfeeding. What did she say to indicate she thought she was a man?

This is interesting
SarahAndQuack · 13/11/2021 00:01

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

I am struggling to see how someone who's in the act of breastfeeding looks masculine.

Me too tbh. But clearly there must be something. Unless the waitress couldn’t actually tell your DP was breastfeeding. What did she say to indicate she thought she was a man?

The waitress saw the whole group of us; I'd come in holding baby DD and we'd chatted. Then we sat down, and DP started breastfeeding DD. The waitress came up, saw me, looked at DP, asked for her order, and then called her 'sir'; later on I went to pay part of the bill and she asked what my 'husband' had had.

I really don't think it wasn't obvious DP was feeding - it was just habit from not even looking at people once you've decided you know the gender. But it upset DP.

OP posts:
SarahAndQuack · 13/11/2021 00:02

@LubaLuca

I think you're seeing feminine detail in your partner that other people (understandably) don't from looking at her in the usual way that strangers look at each other. Presumably she's mistaken for a man in various situations - when she's on her own, with friends etc. It doesn't happen just when she's with you, I'm guessing, so it's not just people assuming an obvious woman must be a man because she's partnered with a lady in a dress.
No, as I say, she's mistaken for a man when she's with me.
OP posts:
SarahAndQuack · 13/11/2021 00:03

@Mammyloveswine - yes, various churches offer same-sex marriages. My friend who is Quaker is very keen to tell me I should get married!

OP posts:
MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 13/11/2021 00:05

I really don't think it wasn't obvious DP was feeding - it was just habit from not even looking at people once you've decided you know the gender.

Sorry I think this is nonsense. No one sees a child being breastfed and then forgets the sex of the person. She clearly didn’t realise your partner was breastfeeding. Which of course is very common. I’ve breastfed whilst sitting with friends who didn’t even realise I was doing it.

SarahAndQuack · 13/11/2021 00:07

@Borland

We'd love to get married, but we're Church of England, and the Church doesn't marry gay couples.

Sorry I know this isn't the point of your OP but why do you support a church that doesn't support your relationship and won't let you get married even though that's what you want?

That's a really fair question and I don't know if I can answer it very well.

Basically, it's what I believe. I was brought up in the Church of England. I absolutely believe it. I go to Church with DP and our DD nearly every Sunday, and even if we've had a horrible week or we're out of sorts, Church reminds me of the things that matter. I am far too Anglican to talk earnestly about God, but it really does feel important to me.

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 13/11/2021 00:08

I don't think any church offer same sex marriages yet??

Methodists do. They are basically the same thing as the CofE but people get attached to their own brand of cola/sausages/religion so presumably this is what works for OP best.

SarahAndQuack · 13/11/2021 00:11

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

I really don't think it wasn't obvious DP was feeding - it was just habit from not even looking at people once you've decided you know the gender.

Sorry I think this is nonsense. No one sees a child being breastfed and then forgets the sex of the person. She clearly didn’t realise your partner was breastfeeding. Which of course is very common. I’ve breastfed whilst sitting with friends who didn’t even realise I was doing it.

How fortunate you must be, that your experiences are universal.

Sorry, that is snarky, but - yes, of course, I am sure if her conscious mind had told her 'wait up, that is someone breastfeeding, obviously it's a woman,' she would have retained the information.

But quite obviously, it was the other way around, as I've indicated. She saw me, with a newborn. She assumed I was mum. She saw DP, and she didn't really look or think or notice what DP was doing. It's not that DP was being covert or anything, or it wasn't obvious she was breastfeeding. It was that the waitress had already, subconsciously, decided that DP was dad, so she didn't look at or process what was happening.

OP posts:
SarahAndQuack · 13/11/2021 00:12

@Viviennemary

The point is if she looks more like a man than a woman then its not surprising folk think she is a man.
But I don't think she does, and more to the point, when she's not with me and in a family grouping, people don't think she does.

It's not that she looks like a man, it's that people assume a family group must include a man so they decide if it's not DD and it's not me, it must be her.

OP posts:
MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 13/11/2021 00:14

But quite obviously, it was the other way around, as I've indicated. She saw me, with a newborn. She assumed I was mum. She saw DP, and she didn't really look or think or notice what DP was doing. It's not that DP was being covert or anything, or it wasn't obvious she was breastfeeding. It was that the waitress had already, subconsciously, decided that DP was dad, so she didn't look at or process what was happening.

Of course. Hmm

You are being obtuse.

Kanaloa · 13/11/2021 00:17

I think sometimes people just don’t look properly. Their brain sorts things quickly and they don’t look closely.

I have very short hair (had a shaved head previously) and have been mistaken for male twice before. I was wearing jeans and a sweatshirt, nothing particularly masculine. One of the times I just nodded because it wasn’t relevant and the other time I had to say ‘I’m not male.’

I am aware that I have a round face and not much body definition so I probably looked masculine enough that the people making the mistake presumed I was either male or trying to pass for male. People are so eager not to offend that they try to get it right. I would say if it’s happened repeatedly only to your partner it’s unlikely to be malicious and more likely she looks masculine in some way - like I said I think many people take their cue from hair and clothes as to how someone is trying to present and they try and judge from that.

MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 13/11/2021 00:18

Your partner clearly has somewhat of a masculine appearance about her that despite hearing her high voice people still assume she is male. You’re doing lots of mental gymnastics to assert that that isnt the case and that lots of different people are referring to her as male for some other reason that isn’t based on how she looks.

donquixotedelamancha · 13/11/2021 00:18

But I don't think she does, and more to the point, when she's not with me and in a family grouping, people don't think she does.

Bottom line: gender stereotypes exist. They are so ingrained that there are currently quite a lot of people arguing that how you present is literally what makes you male or female.

Either change a little bit to fit more with those stereotypes or learn to live with the friction of not fitting. Get your lassie in a dress and bright red lippy or just correct people who get it wrong (I'd snog passionately in front of anyone who acts like it's a problem).

That's it. Those are your two options.

Tailendofsummer · 13/11/2021 00:20

You can't have the wedding you want (in a C of E church) but you could have the marriage you want. Wouldn't that be better?

SarahAndQuack · 13/11/2021 00:21

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

But quite obviously, it was the other way around, as I've indicated. She saw me, with a newborn. She assumed I was mum. She saw DP, and she didn't really look or think or notice what DP was doing. It's not that DP was being covert or anything, or it wasn't obvious she was breastfeeding. It was that the waitress had already, subconsciously, decided that DP was dad, so she didn't look at or process what was happening.

Of course. Hmm

You are being obtuse.

Confused Well, maybe? Why is it so impossible it's the way round I say?
OP posts:
Autumndays123 · 13/11/2021 00:22

@2319inprogress

SarahAndQuack

^2319inprogress*
*Humans, particularly females, can accurately identify the sex of other people nearly all the time so I would assume that people think that your partner wishes to be perceived as male & are trying to get it "right".^

Unless this is when she's not actually there in which case I would think people are forgetting who you/she is & defaulting to assuming that you have a male partner.

Do you have evidence for this? I'd love to see it, since colleagues working in academic research disagree.

If you & your colleagues in academic research think that humans can't tell the difference between male & female humans then why would you be surprised/annoyed that people get it wrong w.r.t. your partner Confused

Excellent (and quite amusing) post
SarahAndQuack · 13/11/2021 00:22

@Kanaloa

I think sometimes people just don’t look properly. Their brain sorts things quickly and they don’t look closely.

I have very short hair (had a shaved head previously) and have been mistaken for male twice before. I was wearing jeans and a sweatshirt, nothing particularly masculine. One of the times I just nodded because it wasn’t relevant and the other time I had to say ‘I’m not male.’

I am aware that I have a round face and not much body definition so I probably looked masculine enough that the people making the mistake presumed I was either male or trying to pass for male. People are so eager not to offend that they try to get it right. I would say if it’s happened repeatedly only to your partner it’s unlikely to be malicious and more likely she looks masculine in some way - like I said I think many people take their cue from hair and clothes as to how someone is trying to present and they try and judge from that.

YY, I think that's exactly it. As I've said, I absolutely don't think it's malicious! I really don't.
OP posts:
Willyoujustbequiet · 13/11/2021 00:22

I don't mean this to sound harsh but I honestly think most school mums just wouldn't care that much - if they are anything like me you're not on their radar, in a perimenopausal brain fog. They are far too busy thinking about their own problems to give you head space. It wont be deliberate.