Being told to smile at work

[SmileSmiley]

I have worked as a solicitor since 2008. I work in house for a local authority and generally love my job.

I went to a meeting yesterday and the first thing my client told me was to smile. He then told me that he’d been to a meeting the week before with an external solicitor who greeted him with a ‘lovely big smile’. He then asked why I couldn’t be the same.

I was too shocked to respond. I work in a team with my DP who is also a solicitor - this client has never told him to smile or compared him to a male solicitor.

I have a resting sad face and even when I smile I don’t look particularly happy. However, I am fed up of how I look being deemed to be relevant to how I do my job.

I want to raise this with the client but I know he is going to brush me off as being over sensitive. Should I just leave it this time and have a snappy response prepared for the next time?

That will go down like a lead balloon!

It’s easy to fall into being in your jumper Was the OP wearing a jumper?
She seems happy that she was presented perfectly professionally and acceptably, and as she's a competent adult I'm willing to believe her.

@Dixiechickonhols

Ingermittentparps That’s point though Brian in highways isn’t a colleague (even though they work for same local authority) he’s a client. How you treat a client is different to a colleague. Brian sees external solicitor on Monday - they want his work so are friendly. He comes away with favourable impression likely to give work to them again. On Tuesday he sees OP sitting blank face not interacting with client and he notices and comments. If they were both external solicitors then Brian would chose to give his work to first Solicitor. But Brian can’t chose as he uses in house legal. In private practice I’d always put jacket and lipstick on for client meeting. Have smile and polite chit chat. It’s easy to fall into being in your jumper and think it’s just Brian from Highways when it’s a colleague who is client. He may well be sexist and OP right to call him out but as someone in same set up I’m just suggesting alternative.

I didn’t sit blank faced. I interacted with him like a normal human being then made sure my docs etc were ready and organised so that we could work efficiently.

I don’t know how I can make this any clearer. 😭😭😭

Is it sexism?? My boss once told me that I need to smile more at work (I wasn't client facing) because I "have presence" so it "worries people" if I look so serious. My boss was female, I'm female, so no sexism at play. Irritating but not sexism.

OP I can entirely believe both the 'smile' story and the Sarah one! My work overlaps this world too. Most of my older (and younger) male colleagues are great, but I have come across this behaviour more than once. I've had comments about my clothing and appreciative comments when items were accidentally more revealing than intended and 'cheer up love' etc. In the main it washes over me and I don't take offense but neither do I encourage or reward it. It's tiresome and really has no place at work any more.

So I'd sit at my desk and every so often, grin inanely and do jazz hands. She didn't mention it again.

Girlmom "Don't you just naturally smile when you greet someone?
I think I'd be a bit 'meh' if someone greeted me in a meeting and didn't smile because I'd assume they were in a crappy mood."

So "good morning" with no smile is rudeness, in your book?

I don't lnow what you mean by "bit meh".

Meetings are usually one of several, work stress is normally very high. I think men in particular often nod hello.

We've established this isn't a client to whom you might have to bow and scrape. It sounds like an internal meeting. If it's an external client, my professional smile, which .i deliberately keep small now, and and an offer of a handshake, and "how are you?" should suffice.

I'm off work at the mo, this thread has reminded me to buy a lottery ticket!

[quote dropitlikeitsloth]This is hilarious!!

[/quote] Brilliant

I love the first comment on it :

"When someone tells you to smile use both middle fingers to raise the corners of your lips into a "smile" while simultaneously flipping them off. "

OP it's not you. There will always be people who compete to come up with the most doormat type suggestion of how you should prostrate yourself in order to do better next time. Back in the real world, you behaved perfectly professionally and were unlucky that Brian from Highways is a sexist twat.

MN can be really bonkers sometimes. There was a thread on here a few years back where the OP's husband was in Scouting (I think) and a rather over-invested woman who wouldn't take no for an answer, turned up on her doorstep. OP, understandably, was a bit pissed off that a complete stranger was hassling her. Cue a race to the bottom with posters competing with each other to be the most saintly - and the utterly batshit suggestion that she was being unkind and unsupportive by not having invited the woman in and offered her dinner.

It all boils down to men expecting women to be a fucking ornament. I'd report him if you can

Sorry OP not calling you unprofessional at all just saying it can blur lines if client is colleague. From your initial posts it sounded like you were sat there - we were waiting for someone to join and I obviously didn’t keep a smile on my face. From your updates you’ve said you smiled, greeted him, asked how he was and he’s immediately made comment. In that case yes he sounds inappropriate. Is he a new client or has he been ok in past?
I’d speak to my line manager I think if I wasn’t happy in first instance.

@SmileSmiley

I don’t think people understand that this is literally my face. When my face is neutral I look ANGRY.

I mean I’m not going to do myself any favours here but I’m 6ft1, slightly overweight, my brow overhangs so I look like I’m frowning, my lips point downwards and my nostrils are naturally flared. To arrange my expression into anything other than this is actually hard work and I can only maintain it for a little while before my muscles in my face start to shake. I’m always very pleasant though. I have also adopted a quieter voice so I don’t sound intimidating because that’s not my aim. But literally throughout my life men (and it has never been a woman) have told me to smile and say it might never happen. I am fed up with feeling like I’m not good enough because I look like I do. 😩😢

I don't think you get these comments because of your looks/height or because men find you intimidating. This is really nothing to do with you, it's all to do with him.

I am 5'3, healthy weight, okay-looking, men would not have found me intimidating. But when I was younger I regularly got told "smile, it may never happen/ give us a smile love". This was generally from strangers (e.g in the street or in shops) and it was I assume because I did not glimpse their faces and break into a smile, because - why would I. It was their problem, not mine.

I can also believe your ‘Sarah’ trainee story.

@lentilsforever - you’re on a wind up aren’t you? Please tell me you are!

You cannot seriously be suggesting that my ultimate aim is to be signed off? This has actually made me laugh out loud. I particularly enjoyed the way you confidently told me how my colleagues and I behave whilst immediately prior to this you admitted that you have no experience of working in a local authority! 😂😂

Thanks for cheering me up! I love your sense of humour. Or at least I hope it’s your sense of humour and you’re not serious.

@HundredMilesAnHour

Is it sexism?? My boss once told me that I need to smile more at work (I wasn't client facing) because I "have presence" so it "worries people" if I look so serious. My boss was female, I'm female, so no sexism at play. Irritating but not sexism.

Women can still perpetuate sexist ideas, absolutely, of course they can.

@HundredMilesAnHour

Is it sexism?? My boss once told me that I need to smile more at work (I wasn't client facing) because I "have presence" so it "worries people" if I look so serious. My boss was female, I'm female, so no sexism at play. Irritating but not sexism.

A woman can be sexist towards another woman. Don't you understand what the word means?

It was a general comment on private versus public rather than your situation

Were you sat, waiting, staring into space? That's the only reason I can imagine he'd have said that. Maybe he was tactlessly trying to make conversation.

there are a billion ways to make conversation. They're British, FFS, what about "blimey, this weather?"

Women not wanting men to tell them to smile has been a topic of discussion for at least the last 30 years or more. They have got the message but they still do it.

If anyone says that to me i just say "why?" At work, i know how to interact with colleagues and clients professionally and when to smile and chat, but i don't have to sit around smiling all the time in between. It is insulting to suggest that.

I reckon he was filling an awkward silence and it bombed!

@lentilsforever

I reckon he was filling an awkward silence and it bombed!

I went to a meeting yesterday and the first thing my client told me was to smile. He then told me that he’d been to a meeting the week before with an external solicitor who greeted him with a ‘lovely big smile’. He then asked why I couldn’t be the same

He should be professional, not 'fill an awkward silence' with a sexist request for a woman to smile on command because he likes it when women grin at him.

It would be a much more awkward silence after saying that surely!

They would never ever do this to a man! So why do they think it’s acceptable to do to a woman?!

I have epic resting bitch face and a hard paddington stare that can strip paint. I used to get this all the time. I'd be so tempted to just bare my teeth at him, although I don't know that I'd be brave enough.

* It is relevant to how you do (some) jobs. A smile goes a long way, especially in client meetings. Not a big beaming and fake smile but if someone is sitting there looking sad it might give a wrong impression, especially if they are quiet too*

^I agree

I have 'resting scary face' try cultivating that and he'll soon pack that it.

@Livpool

From the other side I have a resting smiley face - and I have been told to stop smirking (I'm not - just my face) and be a bit more serious 🤷🏼‍♀️

Is your name Priti Patel?