Being told to smile at work

[SmileSmiley]

I have worked as a solicitor since 2008. I work in house for a local authority and generally love my job.

I went to a meeting yesterday and the first thing my client told me was to smile. He then told me that he’d been to a meeting the week before with an external solicitor who greeted him with a ‘lovely big smile’. He then asked why I couldn’t be the same.

I was too shocked to respond. I work in a team with my DP who is also a solicitor - this client has never told him to smile or compared him to a male solicitor.

I have a resting sad face and even when I smile I don’t look particularly happy. However, I am fed up of how I look being deemed to be relevant to how I do my job.

I want to raise this with the client but I know he is going to brush me off as being over sensitive. Should I just leave it this time and have a snappy response prepared for the next time?

You could also do caci or something like that which changes your face muscles and makes you more smiley and also could raise your brow.

If you did a broad grin and held it for 3 minutes a few times a day (in private!) your face muscles would change and your face would naturally be more smiley

Being 6 ft 1 you could be really elegant

It is up to you, though. hahahahaha (just in case you thought it wasn't OP)

This just made me spit out my double decker

Oh @Megalameg you really are the gift that keeps on giving.

In your rush to see sexism don’t forget part of most client based jobs is personal interaction. You can’t just act like a bitch and then be like, “well whoever doesn’t like this is sexist”. A smile is simple courtesy.

90% of what you post on threads is dripping with misogyny and sexism.

To the point where I now recognise your username and expect it.

And you don't disappoint. Well you do, in that your views are incredibly disappointing, but you are at least consistent in being a misogynist and sexist.

In your rush to see sexism don’t forget part of most client based jobs is personal interaction. You can’t just act like a bitch and then be like, “well whoever doesn’t like this is sexist”. A smile is simple courtesy.

The thing is if a smile was simply just an expected courteous act then men would be told to smile too but they never are so what is it then, if not sexist??

Men aren’t told to smile because these type of men see women as there for their entertainment. This man told OP to smile because he believes women owe it to him, to help satisfy his ego. Thing is we don’t owe anything and aren’t performing puppets. I’ve never known a woman to tell another woman to smile either. Funny that.

Re Meg saying "a smile is simple courtesy". Is it? I think a nod and greeting is fine, good morning, hello etc.

I don't think lack of smile is bad manners.

@DaisyNGO

Re Meg saying "a smile is simple courtesy". Is it? I think a nod and greeting is fine, good morning, hello etc.

I don't think lack of smile is bad manners.

Don't you just naturally smile when you greet someone? I think I'd be a bit 'meh' if someone greeted me in a meeting and didn't smile because I'd assume they were in a crappy mood.

YANBU. You greeted the client politely and with a smile.

It infuriates me that men never get this 'just smile' bollocks. Fuck off you patronising sexist bell-end.

My stock response to this is to give a very short and tight smile and then immediately say "We're here to talk about X, shall we get started?". It's always men - I have never ever had this comment from a woman.

YANBU - it s sexist behaviour. A man would never ask another man to smile.

Don't you just naturally smile when you greet someone?
SHE DID SMILE.

I know, I'm shouting, but honestly, can people read?

@Dixiechickonhols

Intermittentparps Correct she didn’t. I assumed Teams as we are still wfh and she said waiting to join but my view same in person or on teams. I’ve swapped from private practice to LA and it’s very different. If Mrs X came in about her will you wouldn’t just sit there unsmiling waiting for someone else to join meeting, she’s a client you’d smile and make polite chit chat. Just because it’s Brian from highways you should treat as client. Of course he might be a sexist idiot. But it might have been a clumsy way of him really noticing difference in treatment. Only OP knows if she would have treated an external client same way.

If Mrs X came in about her will you wouldn’t just sit there unsmiling waiting for someone else to join meeting, she’s a client you’d smile and make polite chit chat. Just because it’s Brian from highways you should treat as client. 'unsmiling' makes it sound like the OP was being deliberately unfriendly, but it wasn't, that's just her face. I've had quite a lot of colleagues who I wouldn't necessarily make polite chit chat with while waiting for someone else. And it's happened to me the other way round too. No hard feelings (and no injunctions to smile!), just an understanding that sometimes you just want to get there, say hi how are you with a smile, then just sit/doodle/stare into space/whatever until everyone's there.

It’s defo about misogyny / not performing femininity correctly . It’s not about being friendly.

Because men are NEVER told to smile. Either by women or other men.

Nor are older unattractive women. I know because I am one. When I was young and attractive I was told often by men to smile. What they usually mean is “ Why are you not flirting with me and pandering to my male ego? “

When randomers used to smile I always replied “ Actually my mother has just died “. Usually shut them up.

Obv can’t use it with colleagues / clients .

Thank you @IntermittentParps

I think some posters are imagining that I literally walked in stony faced. I didn’t. I exchanged what I viewed as appropriate pleasantries and began arranging the documents that we needed to go through in an appropriate order. Literally about 15 seconds passed and he then said that to me. From the tone of his delivery, it was almost like he’d been sitting on that and wanting to say something to me like that for a while. I might be wrong though.

I do have a tendency to annoy certain men just by existing as I am. In one of my previous jobs when I was a trainee one of my supervising partners asked me to dress more like one of the secretaries who wore shorter skirts and lower cut tops. He actually had the audacity to tell me that I should be more like ‘Sarah’ because she’s beautiful.

I have to say I’m surprised by some of the responses which suggest that I might not be interacting appropriately with my clients because I’m in-house. I do have experience of working in private practice. I trained and worked for a few years at a national commercial law firm so I know how to deliver high standards of client care and all of the marketing etc that goes alongside this. I’ve never had a complaint about my attitude in my years of practice.

However, I’m also willing to take on board that the issue MIGHT be me so I will be even more aware of how I come across to people.

Thanks everyone.

It 20 years of work I have never had really any issues with any senior, peer, junior or client. Things like this are just water off a Duck’s back.

Have I been called “love” before by clients and colleagues, yes. Mainly men but also I had a female boss who would often call me “love”

Have I also sat in meetings with maybe three other women waiting for a man or two to join us, and talk has turned to how unprofessional we are being but…. One of them is absolutely gorgeous etc

Yes. Probably why I have enjoyed my career so much and done so well.

I think some posters are imagining that I literally walked in stony faced. I think it fits their narrative

In one of my previous jobs when I was a trainee one of my supervising partners asked me to dress more like one of the secretaries who wore shorter skirts and lower cut tops. He actually had the audacity to tell me that I should be more like ‘Sarah’ because she’s beautiful.
I do hope you ripped him a new one read him the riot act.

* I do have a tendency to annoy certain men just by existing as I am. In one of my previous jobs when I was a trainee one of my supervising partners asked me to dress more like one of the secretaries who wore shorter skirts and lower cut tops*

Really? Honestly?
He actually said “wear low cut tops and short skirts please”

@IntermittentParps I’m afraid to say I just went to the bathroom and cried and then had as little interaction with him as I could for the remainder of my 6mth seat in that department! I was also conscious that if I made a fuss, the firm probably wouldn’t have offered me an NQ position when I qualified.

I wouldn’t care but he wore the same shirts with frayed cuffs every day! He was in no way qualified to comment on my attire!

@lentilsforever no what he said was that I should dress more like ‘Sarah’. He then said something like ‘look at her, she’s beautiful’.

[quote SmileSmiley]@IntermittentParps I’m afraid to say I just went to the bathroom and cried and then had as little interaction with him as I could for the remainder of my 6mth seat in that department! I was also conscious that if I made a fuss, the firm probably wouldn’t have offered me an NQ position when I qualified.

I wouldn’t care but he wore the same shirts with frayed cuffs every day! He was in no way qualified to comment on my attire![/quote]
No, I get it, it's not that easy to do shit like that except in one's fantasies...!

Sarah looked lovely but her style of dressing was not the same as mine.

So he said “dress more like Sarah, she’s beautiful”?

@lentilsforever

So he said “dress more like Sarah, she’s beautiful”?

Er yes……

I’m sensing that you are somewhat disbelieving of this! I can assure you that this 100% happened to me.

I'd say "If you want me to smile as well I'll need a substantial payrise. Shall we get on?" sarcastic grin - channeling Anna Maxwell Martin.

Or "Would you prefer they sent the other lawyer from last week then, or are you happy for me to proceed?"

I think some people may be projecting their ideas or experience of public sector vs private sector workers here. Rather than recognising that you're a lawyer and used to working professionally with clients in any sector. Though inevitably there's an element of 'getting on with a professional meeting' rather than 'marketing' when the client is internal.

Ingermittentparps
That’s point though Brian in highways isn’t a colleague (even though they work for same local authority) he’s a client. How you treat a client is different to a colleague.
Brian sees external solicitor on Monday - they want his work so are friendly. He comes away with favourable impression likely to give work to them again.
On Tuesday he sees OP sitting blank face not interacting with client and he notices and comments.
If they were both external solicitors then Brian would chose to give his work to first Solicitor. But Brian can’t chose as he uses in house legal.
In private practice I’d always put jacket and lipstick on for client meeting. Have smile and polite chit chat. It’s easy to fall into being in your jumper and think it’s just Brian from Highways when it’s a colleague who is client.
He may well be sexist and OP right to call him out but as someone in same set up I’m just suggesting alternative.

@SmileSmiley

Thank you *@IntermittentParps*

I think some posters are imagining that I literally walked in stony faced. I didn’t. I exchanged what I viewed as appropriate pleasantries and began arranging the documents that we needed to go through in an appropriate order. Literally about 15 seconds passed and he then said that to me. From the tone of his delivery, it was almost like he’d been sitting on that and wanting to say something to me like that for a while. I might be wrong though.

I do have a tendency to annoy certain men just by existing as I am. In one of my previous jobs when I was a trainee one of my supervising partners asked me to dress more like one of the secretaries who wore shorter skirts and lower cut tops. He actually had the audacity to tell me that I should be more like ‘Sarah’ because she’s beautiful.

I have to say I’m surprised by some of the responses which suggest that I might not be interacting appropriately with my clients because I’m in-house. I do have experience of working in private practice. I trained and worked for a few years at a national commercial law firm so I know how to deliver high standards of client care and all of the marketing etc that goes alongside this. I’ve never had a complaint about my attitude in my years of practice.

However, I’m also willing to take on board that the issue MIGHT be me so I will be even more aware of how I come across to people.

Thanks everyone.

Please don't change anything about you because of one arsewipe client.

@lottiegarbanzo

I think some people may be projecting their ideas or experience of public sector vs private sector workers here. Rather than recognising that you're a lawyer and used to working professionally with clients in any sector. Though inevitably there's an element of 'getting on with a professional meeting' rather than 'marketing' when the client is internal.

Nailed it.

In private - it swings both ways. I’ve been with women talking about men in a derogatory way and I’ve been called “love” etc by men and aware of men talking about women in a derogatory way.

Private sector. The massive majority accept its half a dozen of one eland the other and get on with work.

Whereas I suspect in public sector (never worked, thank goodness), a lot more navel gazing and tick boxing and well, taking offence in order to get signed off!