Or is DH - Works on leasehold property

[MrsWarleggan]

So, DH and I have just purchased our first home. It's a leasehold flat. We knew from our lease that we would have to ask for permission to do a full re-wire on the place. In our complete and total naivety we assumed (wrongly as it now transpires) that as the works are essential due to safety issues with the existing electrics that we could do the work and then request retrospective approval. There is absolutely no way that they can refuse as the current fuse board hasn't been replaced since the 60's and there are wires hanging out of holes drilled through walls!

We have all the paperwork but as we are not legal owners until we complete on the 12th they can't entertain a request and won't be able to until deeds are transferred which can take up to a month after completion despite then being the legal owners!!

It now looks as though we can't request retrospective approval. The application form has a "retrospective approval" section asking for dates work completed and requests copies of the electrical sign off by the electrician etc. For what it's worth he is NICEIC registered and has his indemnity insurances which would provide proof off...... However in the next breath they say in their guidance notes any works completed prior to approval would put us in breach of our lease....... So here in turn is my question.

DH is incredibly and understandably frustrated. We have 2 weeks between completion and having to be out of our rental and just wants to get the work done. He is somewhat blinded by the need/desire to get the work done before we move in.

After going through the paperwork I am convinced we will have to delay a couple of months. Live in the danger zone property with two small children and await the approval then move in to parents when work goes on.

DH is adamant he wants to continue. I don't want to spend the first 6 months of homeownership waiting for a knock on the door due to unauthorised works.

We KNOW we needed permission and exchanged contracts based on this. However, it wasnt until we exchanged and submitted our works request that we were told we couldn't do anything until we were the legal owners. Even a solicitors letter to them did nothing and the current owners (probate) refused to put the request in on our behalf (approval would be transferred) despite doing all the actual paperwork.

Has anyone had any experience of this and do I need to tell my DH to get over himself and the work will get done when we can?

Sorry for the long post.... 24 hours of pure frustration typed out on a phone!!!

Of course you can't do anything until all the boxes are ticked and you're the owners. it would be quite frankly weird if you could!

I'm confused about what you mean. You've exchanged contracts but not completed? Have I read it wrong?

Why would you think you could carry out work on property that belongs to someone else?

I think OP means they want to start works as soon as they are legal owners and at the same time as requesting the permission, rather than having to wait 2 months for the permission to come through after completion.

Can you take legal advice on likely consequences of breaching the lease? I think in reality people breach terms of leases a lot - ours specified that the property had to have carpets but the previous owner had put laminate everywhere and no one questioned it. Neighbours had a pet in breach of lease conditions.

Do you want to do it after exchange (when you're not yet the owner); or after completion (when you own it, but will have two weeks before you move by the sounds of it?).

The former would be bonkers.

The latter sounds more doable - I own a leasehold flat and have done emergency work without the freeholders approval with no fuss, and would do so in these circs. I might see whether you can talk to other leaseholders to see what the freeholders are like.

Your biggest problem might be lining up the electricians to do the work on time, though.

I interpreted the OP to mean that they want to get permission before completion, and have the actual rewiring work done in the 2 weeks between completion and needing to leave the rental property, in which case YANBU.

Is your landlord evicting? If the two weeks date is just the expiry of the section 21 notice, you don't actually have to be out by then, it's just the date when the landlord can apply to the (civil) courts and start the eviction process.

I read it as they'd started and were now worrying about permission
I get it now

We’re leaseholders in a building converted into apartments. Several of the owners, including us, have made improvements to our properties and none of us have engaged with the freeholders about it and nor will we.
It’s really not a thing. People have got pets which are not allowed, there’s a satellite dish, also not allowed (conservation area) although not visible, new kitchens, bathrooms, windows galore (not windows on the facade however).
Maybe we’ll all get into trouble but nobody’s losing sleep over it.

I would do it, if quizzed ask your electrician to write a letter stating it was a fire hazard for the whole building.

Sorry!!

I don't mean to do the works before we actually own it. We hoped that with confirmation from our solicitors that we have exchanged and are not pulling out, and will officially own it on the 12th November we could start doing the works on the 15th, but they won't entertain us until our name is on the actual deeds.

It's a probate sale and the property has been empty since Feb.

I even sent the freehold pictures of the existing electrics and they were (for want of a better word) shocked. They are appalling and how they haven't started a fire before hand I will never know.

We are not being evicted as handed in our notice when we exchanged. We can't stay in the rental as can't afford rent and mortgage at the same time.

I'm worried about the neighbours reporting us too. Whilst it hopefully should only be for a week it is going to be noisy due to chasing the walls. I don't want them to complain to the freeholder and then get in the shit.

The freeholder is ex local authority if that helps.

You are caught up in a bureaucratic legal process that takes no account of practicalities and realities. You have to accept it and just wait until you have full legal ownership before submitting your request. You may think this is bonkers but its the law you are dealing with.

Why can't you just coordinate this with the sellers, who can request the approval while they're still the legal owners? Though I'm not sure the four days that would save you is really the sticking point here.

@PurpleOkapi

We did ask them to put forward the request over a month ago and they refused.

@thumpingrug

I do think it's bonkers but am (reluctantly) happy to accept this and play by the rules.

DH on the other hand isn't happy and refuses to accept it for what it is and just wants to go ahead and deal with the consequences later. To him it's an acceptable risk. Despite it being in black and white.

To me, not so much.

There's a million things restricted in the leases of my flats which no one cares about or gets permission for!

Any chance you can ask other leaseholders in the building what they've done for works?

If it was me I would submit the application for approval on the day after completion and then crack on. The risk of being in an unsafe property (if it is unsafe) is greater than getting a refusal for essential works or the mortgagee getting the wind up because you are in breach of the lease.

you should be prepared though for having to accommodate any reasonable changes to the works requested by the landlord - although I doubt they will ask for any if works are done competently.

btw - lawyer here with 20 years + experience

Have you paid for a survey @MrsWarleggan? If it states in there that the electrics need urgent attention I'd argue that it falls under essential repairs?

We have not long ago bought a leasehold property, so I asked our solicitor to check if we could carry out some works which were highlighted as essential in the survey without the need to give notice.

@Grumpycatsmum

That's how unsafe.... Wire's directly from the fuse box, uncovered until it goes in the conduit and drilled through a hole inside the fuse box in to a bedroom the other side... Just dangling then fed into a double socket.

Oooh look, the DB has blown. Can’t live without power, entirely acceptable for you to have done emergency work to repair it…….

Just saw the photo. Don’t homes in England need an electrical safety certificate to sell them? You couldn’t sell a home for habitation with that, in Scotland,

@MrsTiffin

Not a full survey, but we had the electrician in before hand with the estate agents.

I'm 100% with your DH here.

What is the worst that could happen if you fix the electrics without permission? You might get involved in a bit of legal wrangling (but probably nothing will happen).

What is the worst that could happen if you don't fix the electrics? One or all of you could wind up dead.

I second @Grumpycatsmum. I can’t work out what they could possibly ‘get’ you on in the circumstances, ie there would be no inconvenience or loss. It’s not like changing carpet to floorboards, which might cause a long-standing noise nuisance to neighbours. They may ask for some adjustments to the work once it’s done, but you can do this afterwards.