Or is DH - Works on leasehold property

[MrsWarleggan]

So, DH and I have just purchased our first home. It's a leasehold flat. We knew from our lease that we would have to ask for permission to do a full re-wire on the place. In our complete and total naivety we assumed (wrongly as it now transpires) that as the works are essential due to safety issues with the existing electrics that we could do the work and then request retrospective approval. There is absolutely no way that they can refuse as the current fuse board hasn't been replaced since the 60's and there are wires hanging out of holes drilled through walls!

We have all the paperwork but as we are not legal owners until we complete on the 12th they can't entertain a request and won't be able to until deeds are transferred which can take up to a month after completion despite then being the legal owners!!

It now looks as though we can't request retrospective approval. The application form has a "retrospective approval" section asking for dates work completed and requests copies of the electrical sign off by the electrician etc. For what it's worth he is NICEIC registered and has his indemnity insurances which would provide proof off...... However in the next breath they say in their guidance notes any works completed prior to approval would put us in breach of our lease....... So here in turn is my question.

DH is incredibly and understandably frustrated. We have 2 weeks between completion and having to be out of our rental and just wants to get the work done. He is somewhat blinded by the need/desire to get the work done before we move in.

After going through the paperwork I am convinced we will have to delay a couple of months. Live in the danger zone property with two small children and await the approval then move in to parents when work goes on.

DH is adamant he wants to continue. I don't want to spend the first 6 months of homeownership waiting for a knock on the door due to unauthorised works.

We KNOW we needed permission and exchanged contracts based on this. However, it wasnt until we exchanged and submitted our works request that we were told we couldn't do anything until we were the legal owners. Even a solicitors letter to them did nothing and the current owners (probate) refused to put the request in on our behalf (approval would be transferred) despite doing all the actual paperwork.

Has anyone had any experience of this and do I need to tell my DH to get over himself and the work will get done when we can?

Sorry for the long post.... 24 hours of pure frustration typed out on a phone!!!

@MrsWarleggan

I have sent numerous pictures to the Freeholder. I mentioned to them that the previous owner would have been in breach of their own lease for not keeping electrical wires and cabling up to a safe standard and she replied "Well, we wouldn't know that as we don't just walk into properties to check"

OP, you answered your own point here, generally speaking. The freeholder doesn’t have a clue what happens behind closed doors in your flat. Don’t engage with them wherever possible! That doesn’t mean you can rip out windows or supporting walls mind.

@TatianaBis

Your DH is being very stupid. To put in a new ceiling - that has to be signed off before you start. If the freeholder doesn’t like what you’ve done, or even just make an example of you, they could make you rip down the ceilings and redo.

You are going to get yourself in legal trouble which could end up being very costly. Can you really afford that?

How would the freeholder know? Mine doesn't know anything we've done since we moved in and I won't be telling him. The only times we did ask him he was so rude I now refuse to speak to him and let DH deal with him.

In the unlikely that the managing agent does not find out about works involving rewiring of whole place + new ceilings; they will find out when OP applies for retrospective permission for something they specifically told her needed prior permission.

And that is precisely why we don't speak to our freeholder unless we have to!

@TatianaBis

The housing association upon asking the question state they need to review our lease to see if we need permission.

We know we need permission however our lease does not state that permission must be/or should be prior or retrospective (screenshots the lease in previous posts).

A technically? I don't know.

Clause 19 is clear OP.

In terms of permanent changing the integral structure yes, by moving the height of the building up or down. It's a 1st floor flat. This is a floating ceiling which will not have any impact on the ORIGINAL height, as the original height will still be there.

I'm honestly not trying to be difficult and as I've previously said I very possibly may be interpreting to fit out situation!

Not building, I meant premises.

Housing Association who own the building our flat is in.

A housing association sold a flat with obviously dangerous wiring and are refusing permission to have it fixed??

His desire to get the job done whilst it is empty is completely blinding his better judgement

Isn’t his better judgement that having kids in such a dangerous environment is really not a good idea?

You can ask your solicitor to interpret the lease for you, but it does come down to legal opinion, so you can’t be sure your freeholder’s solicitors will interpret it in the same way.

In most cases you can’t make alterations such as rewiring and faux ceilings without the freeholder’s permission. It’s not just building’s structure at issue, also the integrity and safety, plumbing and electrics - any of this the freeholder generally needs to know about.

This is because any alterations you make to your property are likely to affect the landlord’s freehold interest. The landlord needs to know not only that the structure is sound, but that all work complies with legislation, regulations and the building is properly insured.

It’s not likely that they let tenants rewire flats without their knowledge and approval is it? If you got some cowboy in (not saying you would) - faulty wiring could set the whole building on fire.

If the freeholder gets wind of the work they could potentially get an injunction to stop it - in this case most likely until the relevant permissions are sought.

Any costs incurred on their side from legal advice, to surveyors, to injunctions etc they will likely seek to pass onto you.

As I said before this is not just about being in breach of the terms of the lease but also the terms of the mortgage - you could also face action from your mortgage company.

@MrsWarleggan the two bits of the lease that you've posted don't actually say that you have to have consent for theses works. Can you post screenshots of the whole of the relevant clauses. From what I've read there is no requirement for consent for works of that nature. Generally the freeholder is concerned with the structural integrity of the building and safety so obviously you need consent for removing walls, altering doors and also generally pipe work for new bathrooms etc but usually you do not require consent for rewiring a flat because that's a non-structural safety issue. Each lease is different but from the page you posted there was no requirement for the freeholders consent to rewiring works.

Here's first 2 pages.

Next 3

Sorry 2

Next 2

And final 2. Schedule 5&6. Apologies if in wrong order!

I'm off to bed to try and get some sleep!! Let me know what you guys think. Thankyou ever so much! ❤️

Unless there is something elsewhere in the lease then under the covenants on the pages supplied you do not need the Freeholders consent to rewire the property under the terms of the lease. In fact Clause 4 (a) of the Lessee's Covenants is a positive obligation upon you to maintain those services (such as electricity cables) in good and substantial repair and condition and not to do so is a breach of covenant. Your solicitor should be able to confirm this to you. Just because a Lessor or Freeholder says something it doesn't mean it is true, the lease is your legal contract and takes precedence.

Looking after and replacing are not the same thing.

You might look after your wooden floor but if you want to replace it that would generally require permission.

There’s generally no liability to bring existing wiring up to today’s standards. But if you are replacing (ie re-wiring) you need building reg approval and and if it’s carried out by a non certified provider it will have to be checked and certified. The lessor will need to know that the new wiring is consistent with regulations. If their surveyor inspects it retrospectively and identifies issues those would have to be redone.

@BoredZelda

His desire to get the job done whilst it is empty is completely blinding his better judgement

Isn’t his better judgement that having kids in such a dangerous environment is really not a good idea?

100% with your DH here, this is certainly a jab that will be done far easier before you move in. If the electrics are as dangerous as you make out you shouldn't be moving in at all until they are done.

Complete, owe the place and crack on, worry about the permission retrospectively.

@TatianaBis

Clause 4a clearly says "replace" where necessary. So in the leases eyes, and by taking on the lease in the flats current state we are already in breach of it surely?

Our electrician is NICEIC registered so part of the Competent Persons Scheme.

You state you have to have building regs. Prior or retrospectively?

If prior why do the housing association include this on their application form? If you HAVE to ALWAYS apply for permission beforehand why include this (screenshot attached)

I think on the lease wording the best thing to do is ask your solicitor how it should be interpreted.

We can all say how we would interpret it, but they should be able to say what is enforceable.

Building regs cert is given when the work is completed. It confirms that the work meets the current standards. Often other trade people will want to see it if they are working in your flat eg putting in a new kitchen.

I wouldn’t be too concerned about the technical breach of lease ans asking for retrospective permission, but would wait at least until after you’ve completed to start the works