Or is DH - Works on leasehold property

[MrsWarleggan]

So, DH and I have just purchased our first home. It's a leasehold flat. We knew from our lease that we would have to ask for permission to do a full re-wire on the place. In our complete and total naivety we assumed (wrongly as it now transpires) that as the works are essential due to safety issues with the existing electrics that we could do the work and then request retrospective approval. There is absolutely no way that they can refuse as the current fuse board hasn't been replaced since the 60's and there are wires hanging out of holes drilled through walls!

We have all the paperwork but as we are not legal owners until we complete on the 12th they can't entertain a request and won't be able to until deeds are transferred which can take up to a month after completion despite then being the legal owners!!

It now looks as though we can't request retrospective approval. The application form has a "retrospective approval" section asking for dates work completed and requests copies of the electrical sign off by the electrician etc. For what it's worth he is NICEIC registered and has his indemnity insurances which would provide proof off...... However in the next breath they say in their guidance notes any works completed prior to approval would put us in breach of our lease....... So here in turn is my question.

DH is incredibly and understandably frustrated. We have 2 weeks between completion and having to be out of our rental and just wants to get the work done. He is somewhat blinded by the need/desire to get the work done before we move in.

After going through the paperwork I am convinced we will have to delay a couple of months. Live in the danger zone property with two small children and await the approval then move in to parents when work goes on.

DH is adamant he wants to continue. I don't want to spend the first 6 months of homeownership waiting for a knock on the door due to unauthorised works.

We KNOW we needed permission and exchanged contracts based on this. However, it wasnt until we exchanged and submitted our works request that we were told we couldn't do anything until we were the legal owners. Even a solicitors letter to them did nothing and the current owners (probate) refused to put the request in on our behalf (approval would be transferred) despite doing all the actual paperwork.

Has anyone had any experience of this and do I need to tell my DH to get over himself and the work will get done when we can?

Sorry for the long post.... 24 hours of pure frustration typed out on a phone!!!

I'm sure you know this anyway but make sure you get the building regs certificate from your electrician before you pay the final bill. The one my mum used was very efficient but our last ones were a bit slow.

I think if it were me I would arrange for the work to be done asap after completion regardless if you've actually got consent, as it's hard to get anyone booked in at the moment. But send them the request for consent on the date of completion (or as soon as you can get a copy of the transfer)

I have a leasehold flat in a council owned block. I wouldn’t need to ask permission for internal works like this, but I assume leases vary greatly.
In your shoes I would definitely get a properly qualified electrician to do the work ASAP, get the installation certificate, and the Part P form off to the council, etc.
The freeholder may not be being very helpful now, but you can bet that they would be even worse and looking to you to make good any damage your old electrics caused to the block if they went wrong whilst waiting for their permission.
They can’t realistically refuse permission for an updated electrical system which is safer and compliant with current regulations.
I have never had to use it but their is an appeal procedure for issues between freeholders and leaseholders, but I can’t see any likelihood of you needing it over this issue.
Try to relax and enjoy your new home.

@MrsWarleggan

Sorry!!

I don't mean to do the works before we actually own it. We hoped that with confirmation from our solicitors that we have exchanged and are not pulling out, and will officially own it on the 12th November we could start doing the works on the 15th, but they won't entertain us until our name is on the actual deeds.

It's a probate sale and the property has been empty since Feb.

I even sent the freehold pictures of the existing electrics and they were (for want of a better word) shocked. They are appalling and how they haven't started a fire before hand I will never know.

We are not being evicted as handed in our notice when we exchanged. We can't stay in the rental as can't afford rent and mortgage at the same time.

Given the freeholder is aware and was shocked by the state of it they’re not going to complain about you fixing them ASAP.

It’s a fire risk. No-one is going to go nuts at you fixing a fire risk.

I did this. Didn't bother to tell freeholders. Also knocked down a wall and put in new kitchen and bathroom. Happily sold on the flat later with no freeholder certification. Oh and had wood floor which was against lease. No one ever gave a shit.

I'm a leaseholder and I'm pretty sure the lease says that I am responsible for making the house safe and keeping it in good repair.
I'm 100% sure that basic electrical safety is fine to do. They're talking about extensions and things you need permission for. How would they even know anyway? It's not like they come to the house to inspect things.

@MrsWarleggan
Can your solicitor make an application to Land Registry to expedite the change of ownership? www.gov.uk/guidance/request-an-expedite

The basis would be the dangerous state of electrics.

The neighbours aren’t going to complain. If there’s a fire because it, it’s their lives and homes at risk too!

If you were installing floorboards or knocking down walls without permission, as a neighbour I’d be annoyed.

Electrical safety stuff? Get a properly licensed electrician and crack on with my strong encouragement and blessing. For all our sakes!

@FortunesFave

Of course you can't do anything until all the boxes are ticked and you're the owners. it would be quite frankly weird if you could!

You actually CAN do this between exchange and completion if the sellers agree. It’s called a key release.

OP, you may already know but the Land Registry are currently taking MONTHS to process transfers of property. I submitted one a month ago which is expected to be completed in Jan 2022.

Yes I'd just get on with that too. Stick the application in and then just start.

[quote Alpinechalet]@MrsWarleggan
Can your solicitor make an application to Land Registry to expedite the change of ownership? www.gov.uk/guidance/request-an-expedite

The basis would be the dangerous state of electrics.[/quote]
They're even backed up on cases they're rushing through.
Nobody will mind you making a flat safe. It's not like you're knocking walls down. Just do it before you move in. When you said the freeholder is ex council, did you mean the flat is ex council making the freeholder your local council? Local council departments are really variable. Some can be painfully slow.
One thing they will not mind is reduction of fire risk.

Thankyou all for your advice.

I think we are going to go ahead with it. Just pray we don't get into trouble with either the freeholder or mortgage company.

Just having a look through the paperwork again. I hate the fact that they have included the retrospective approval part in the application form.... Its almost goading you into doing it.... Because it then says "if you do this you will be in breach of your lease and will be liable for the original licence fee and an extra 75% on top for our inconvenience"... Money maker??

No one is going to knock on your door because you rewired the flat. You also can’t be unreasonably denied permission to do works on a leasehold flat, so it is just a box-ticking exercise. From memory, I only asked for permission for things that affected the fabric – drilling a hole for a kitchen extractor to vent through, replacing a window, that sort of thing. Had loads of wiring done and never asked the freeholder ¯\(ツ)/¯

How much is the fee? Those fees are there for the freeholders to make money, as freeholds are usually sold as an investment. So yes, intended to be a money maker.

The trouble you’ve got here is who your freeholder is: local authority right?

Common sense is frequently not applied, and while a private freeholder would look at the safety element and not bother about you “breaking” the lease like lots of others have said, local authorities are more likely to follow protocol rather than sense.

@1990s

Yes local authority. A well known nationwide housing authority.

@Leftbutcameback

For what we want to do it's £150 admin fee.

Unauthorised works can put you in breach of a covenant of the lease, which can allow the freeholder to start legal action to forfeit the lease and gain possession of your flat.

You would be liable for any legal costs your landlord incurs in that scenario.

You would also be in breach of the terms of the mortgage that stipulate you stick to the terms of the lease.

I imagine what the freeholder would say in this situation is that as there is a safety issue you’d need to apply for the correct permission as soon as you legally owned the property and then get the work done in good time.

They would give no shits if that inconveniences you and means you need to move out while it happens/it’s more convenient to do before that.

FWIW I think what you want to do is totally right, but like I say, if anyone is going to enforce action on breaking a lease term, it’s a local authority.

Hang on, it's not a local authority. It's a housing authority. That's what OP has said. Totally different organisation. OP can you confirm - your last answer was confusing.

I don't think that fee is high really, certainly not compared to the cost of the works.

Just pray we don't get into trouble with either the freeholder or mortgage company.

You will get into trouble with both.

The mortgage terms will state that the freeholder notify them of any breach of lease within x period - often 28 days.

Yeah the fee is standard.

I only have experience of local authority and private freeholders, can’t help with housing authorities I’m afraid.

The reason that local authorities are more likely to follow the rules is that as they are a public body type thing they have to adhere to rules, and they have teams of people who monitor/reply to issues/changes etc.

If housing authorities are similarly publicly responsible it may be the same.

(Not described that all very well OP, sorry words not coming today!)

Housing associations are not public bodies, but are not for profit organisations. They will want to protect their assets (the block) but the actual terms of the lease wil determine what happens if you don't get consent. Your solicitor should be advising you on this. Not people on a forum who haven't read the lease. You usually pay an additional fee for leasehold conveyancing so ask the solicitor to advise on risks and consequences.

I'd stop sending everyone pictures of everything pronto and go quiet OP (keep them for your own records obviously), submit application on day of completion and crack on. NO-ONE is going to come knocking and if they do you have the pictures.

Unauthorised works can put you in breach of a covenant of the lease, which can allow the freeholder to start legal action to forfeit the lease and gain possession of your flat.

Any action for essential works done safely would fail. A court will not enforce a clause that is unreasonable, and a clause that delays or prohibits vital works is unreasonable.

Get on with the work OP. I've had a leasehold for nearly twenty years, and I've learned that you engage with the freeholder/ management company as little as possible. No one gets permission for internal works.

But do speak to your new neighbours first. Let them know what you're doing and a time frame for the work, and give them your number in case of any problems with noise.