Or is DH - Works on leasehold property

[MrsWarleggan]

So, DH and I have just purchased our first home. It's a leasehold flat. We knew from our lease that we would have to ask for permission to do a full re-wire on the place. In our complete and total naivety we assumed (wrongly as it now transpires) that as the works are essential due to safety issues with the existing electrics that we could do the work and then request retrospective approval. There is absolutely no way that they can refuse as the current fuse board hasn't been replaced since the 60's and there are wires hanging out of holes drilled through walls!

We have all the paperwork but as we are not legal owners until we complete on the 12th they can't entertain a request and won't be able to until deeds are transferred which can take up to a month after completion despite then being the legal owners!!

It now looks as though we can't request retrospective approval. The application form has a "retrospective approval" section asking for dates work completed and requests copies of the electrical sign off by the electrician etc. For what it's worth he is NICEIC registered and has his indemnity insurances which would provide proof off...... However in the next breath they say in their guidance notes any works completed prior to approval would put us in breach of our lease....... So here in turn is my question.

DH is incredibly and understandably frustrated. We have 2 weeks between completion and having to be out of our rental and just wants to get the work done. He is somewhat blinded by the need/desire to get the work done before we move in.

After going through the paperwork I am convinced we will have to delay a couple of months. Live in the danger zone property with two small children and await the approval then move in to parents when work goes on.

DH is adamant he wants to continue. I don't want to spend the first 6 months of homeownership waiting for a knock on the door due to unauthorised works.

We KNOW we needed permission and exchanged contracts based on this. However, it wasnt until we exchanged and submitted our works request that we were told we couldn't do anything until we were the legal owners. Even a solicitors letter to them did nothing and the current owners (probate) refused to put the request in on our behalf (approval would be transferred) despite doing all the actual paperwork.

Has anyone had any experience of this and do I need to tell my DH to get over himself and the work will get done when we can?

Sorry for the long post.... 24 hours of pure frustration typed out on a phone!!!

*if there is even a technical breach. As you’ve said, you’ll have the necessary compliance sign offs and insurance should there be any issue identified with the works later.
Maybe speak to the neighbour again and get a gauge as to how involved/engaged the freeholder actually is? More often than not leases are old and not so strictly enforced.
How did she go about getting consent for example - any issues etc

I spoke to one of our neighbours yesterday and she said they are absolutely shite at communication and they only get in contact when they want money for works!

@RedRobin100

The flat above us is owned by an older lady. She doesn't live there though.... Her daughter and son in law do with their children..... Pretty sure that's sub letting and completely in breach of lease!!

Why do they make language in leases so that one person can have one interpretation and another a different one??

Whilst obviously they have legal training what's to say that even the solicitors are correct in their interpretation?? As previously mentioned when I asked her and as detailed in the property report she just said I needed to contact the freeholder for clarification!!

Well the key interpretation is the one a court would take - that’s what your solicitor should be able to advise on, and the risk one way or the other. But I agree it’s rarely black and white!
I come back again to what you can glean about how hands on the freeholder actually is. How old is the lease etc? How strictly are they known to take an active role in enforcement.
The place sound basically uninhabitable and unsafe. So long as the works you’re doing are essential to maintaining it in safe habitable condition and your not making Willy nilly
Structural changes etc I’d crack on when you complete, make sure all your compliance paperwork and insurance and warranties are in order and seek retro consent/put the application in whilst doing the works.
Obviously there is a risk they’re not happy about it - but if any issues, they should only be making you rectify so it is within regulations etc (which hopefully
It will be anyways), not spitefully rip it out and put it back to uninhabitable..

Your new neighbours all sound lovely and you do not want to be plugging in all your appliances and burning their homes down.

I mean if an elderly person lived there alone before they might’ve been using only a fraction of the demand that a modern a family will put on the wiring with all the extra gizmos. I can’t offer legal advice but this has got to be a ask forgiveness rather than seek approval type situation. You don’t worry about trespassing when someone’s drowning in a pool.

Well.... Here's an update to end all sodding updates!! We took the guy who was doing the ceiling to the flat yesterday for final quote and he's just emailed back stating he would have to double his estimate..... Which we can't afford (he was recommended by the electrician as he works with him) so no ceiling and no electrics being done! There is a plan B but would take double the time which the electrician can't commit too due to other works booked in! He's going to make safe as much as possible for us to move in to and will now have to wait until January for availability!!!

Can you (insert swear word) believe it!!

DH is gutted, angry peed off, you name it, but I feel a sense of total relief!!

Thanks for all you advice and opinions, really do appreciate it..... Now I'm off to fill out an application form for permission!!

Ah, I’m sorry OP. Having read the attachments you put up, I remain firmly in the belief that you could have done the electrics but not the fake ceiling… but I’m sorry you no longer have the choice, even though I suppose that makes it a little easier to decide what to do!

All the best with everything.

I'd be wary of all the people telling you here that the freeholders will never follow up on works done, licenses etc. I was encouraged (by my partner and my builder) not to worry about breaching covenants/doing things without the proper licenses etc when renovating our new leasehold flat. Ended up being threatened with forfeiture of the lease and had to pay several thousand pounds to put things right. These laws are enforceable and it's totally down to the discretion of the freeholder.

I can’t say I’m surprised - the work my mum had done which sounds very similar was very expensive. At least it solves the consent problem!

@Hotpinkparade

Jeez! I know it can be a possible outcome but thought that was last resort... If you don't mind me asking what did you have done and was it a ex-council/housing association freeholder?

Well I suppose it's moot now. I was going to ask what your lawyer advised. Because that's the person you should be asking this question of.

I work for a housing association that was transferred housing stock from local authority so handle a lot of ex local authority leaseholds. We are reasonable in any requests for essential works, but generally we accept leaseholders do works without permission. We do tend to charge more to request retrospective permission, and it happens regularly and we don't tell anyone off unless it's endangering lives.

Do the freeholders have a website where you can check costs - if they advertise a retrospective permission fee then it is likely they are more lenient about it.

Alternatively, I would write a formal complaint regarding the situation and the risk to your family by refusing to grant permission prior to transfer. I know nothing gets our leasehold team moving quicker than a formal complaint or a threat to ombudsman.

@ljcudd

Thank you for this information. Extremely helpful ❤️

The retrospective fee is advertised on their information sheet. Standard fee + 75% so is £150.