Cultural appropriation?

[Xmassprout]

I bought some silks fans a little while ago to use for a portion of a dance routine. I've been looking online for inspiration and the vast majority of stuff I can see is connected to bellydancing.

After more investigating it seems that the fans didn't come from the origins of bellydancing but from other cultures. I've also seen that white women bellydancing is seen as cultural appropriation by many.

The routine I'm planning has no resemblance to belly dancing, the costume has no resemblance and hair and make up will be no resemblance. Would it still be cultural appropriation to use the fans?

Please don't jump on me!

IABU = don't use them, it's cultural appropriation
YANBU = use them as long as you're mindful

@MrsTerryPratchett Yes. And then they'll spout something like "Well my English ancestors in 1348 did xyz therefore it's not appropriation oh and Black women sometimes wear blonde wigs so nah nah nah". It's bloody tedious.

It's bloody tedious.

It is that! And the wilful reductio ad absurdum (other spellings are available) is tiresome. So if I think someone wearing a full FN headdress to Cochinella is offensive I have to think a black woman getting highlights is too.

Someone who has a Russian name and a Canadian dish should be ignored.

@Againstmachine

Someone who has a Russian name and a Canadian dish should be ignored.

I have Russian ancestry and don't give a shiny.

It’s not that deep. Even if you was belly dancing I don’t consider that to be cultural appropriation , more like cultural appreciation . Cultural appropriation would be if you became the face of belly dancing . For example when Kim Kardashian’s had her hair in braids the only reason why it was cultural appropriation is because she called it the derick braids . I believe Derick is a white actress who once wore those braids many years ago. However those braids had their own name ( which I forgot) and originated from Ghana . Cultural appropriation is stealing someone else’s culture or making money out of it especially when the original owners don’t. That’s my opinion on this

I have Russian ancestry and don't give a shiny.
You have misunderstood me, My point is not against you it's against Vlad'spoutine who I bet is neither

Kim Kardashian and her family have pretty much built their entire fortune on cosplaying as different cultures/races, they even went so far as to have [redacted so I don't get deleted]

A .or of drag and burlesque performers use different fans in their acts

Rudolf Nureyev in excerpts from Le Corsaire, in an undeniably Orientalist outfit, in a French ballet based on an English poem.

Is this costume problematic? Nureyev was of Tartar stock, therefore Turkic- does that change the answer?

You'd have to be a maniac to want Nureyev to put a top on, either way, wouldn't you?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=mFOCsmx6UMw&t=56s

Do what you want, or don't, if you're too worried about what someone else might think. The trick is to recognise that cultural appropriation is a stupid concept. Ignore people who take it upon themselves to police such silly things as bellydancing, fan dances, and which hairstyles are 'allowed' for which races/ethnicities.

@IreneIddesleigh

Do what you want, or don't, if you're too worried about what someone else might think. The trick is to recognise that cultural appropriation is a stupid concept. Ignore people who take it upon themselves to police such silly things as bellydancing, fan dances, and which hairstyles are 'allowed' for which races/ethnicities.

You think there's no issue someone dressing up as a caricature of another persons culture. Maybe throwing in some offensive stereotypes while they're at it.

For my cultures that would be ginger haired Jock in a kilt saying och aye the noo and two handed drinking. Maybe a Polish person stealing jobs? Irish all in green saying diddly dai. And going on about leprechauns. Ha fucking ha. I suppose if you're only English it's a bowler hat and tea and crumpets so not quite as shit.

But if you're Jamaican or Indigenous and all that's depicted is the lazy shitty stereotype you might get a bit peeved. Can you think what that might be like for a second?

@VladmirsPoutine

It is always white women pulling these stunts then crying when they inevitably get criticised for it. Rinse repeat.

Whine more.

This bs will only stop, btw, once we ignore irrelevant opinions like the above.

I'm pretty sure most cultures agreed that keeping cool was a good idea, so you'll be fine, OP. Cultures have been nicking good ideas from each other for ages - I see it as a compliment, rather than a problem - unless it's mockery or disparagement.

Do what you want to. CA isn't an actual real thing, just another wokery malarkey.

I’m from a belly dancing culture and would not be fussed at all in fact happy that other people appreciate the culture. I know your choreograph’s not belly dancing but I’d love to see it!

I’m sure everyone knows the difference between being offensive about other cultures and just borrowing things in appreciation. The middle class policing of this subject is just patronising.

Pretty much the entire world 'culturally appropriates'. The constant self-flagellation in the west around this is such total nonsense. It's not a white thing, nor a black thing, nor an Asian thing. Enough with this bollocks. We all are influenced by other cultures and always will be.

The people who bore others to death with cultural appropriation bolox are almost always the most unintentionally racist people there are

I’m sure everyone knows the difference between being offensive about other cultures and just borrowing things in appreciation.

Quite. I don't think I've come across an example of problematic behaviour that wasn't simply racism (or very occasionally fraud).

There's no need for an additional term that mostly serves to tie people in knots over perfectly innocent practices.

Little Chinese girls excelling in Irish dancing? Fine by me . Just who are they to ‘ask permission’ from?
The whole thing is bloody ridiculous, in my opinion. Wear braids, belly dance, have a teepee in your garden. One world; on the way to being a beautiful melting pot of races and cultures.

Poor OP. She only asked about a fan.

@Helloise

I get what you are saying which is why I have no issues wearing my kimono as it's a gift from my Japanese friends mother, real silk!

The grievance industry needs feeding this morning it seems.

Genuine question - why are we so open and fluid with constructs such as gender but apparently culture is off the table?

@peachgreen

But the modern world has been overwhelmingly shaped by white colonialism

Wow, what a myopic worldview. The Mongolian invasions alone changed the face of the East and Central Asia along with parts of Russia and Eastern Europe. The end of the Islamic Golden Age was due to Mongolian destruction—big implications that are still felt today.

India, too, was massively impacted by Mongolian invasions (Mughal dynasty lol).

In more recent times, Japanese colonialism brutalised East Asian countries, it still impacts East Asian relations to this day! (Ask any Chinese person how they feel about Japan’s apologies for
their wartime atrocities, it’s still very raw even as it is almost out of living memory)

Doesn’t stop Japanese girls from wearing ‘China dressu’ and not caring about Japanese soldiers bayoneting literal babies in Nanjing and elsewhere (and nor should they, they have nothing to do with their ancestor’s sins, it’s purely a political matter at this point).

Moreover, I’ve never heard any Chinese person complain about cultural appropriation by the Japanese. For one, the Japanese have appropriated Chinese culture from time immemorial, and from their POV it’s completely natural to rip off their ‘superior culture’.

On the other hand, they do get big mad when Japan is credited with something they actually invented, which tends to happen quite a lot 😂