To wonder whether we should have kids

[moveblues]

DH and I are both in our mid/late 30s. We are quite lost about what to do about having kids.

I'm quite a driven person and I like to put a lot of my energy into work because I do something I'm passionate about. My mother always used to tell me never to have kids (lovely huh!) but I think it stuck and I really struggle to picture myself as a mum. I also have bad knees and worry about the toll of pregnancy, and I need to lose ideally 2 stone before if we do.
But then I do wonder how being a parent would change me, quite possibly for the better, and whether I would miss out on giving that level of love to another human!

DH is not really bothered. We both really like a life where we can pretty much do what we want when we want, don't have to pay nursery fees etc (which would etch a lot out of our income!)

Obviously no one can decide this for us but we are both really umming and ahhing and we need to do it soon if we are going to!
If you've been through this - what helped you?

I never had the strong maternal urge. But I am so thankful that I had DD. Even though she was a very colicky baby and for 3.5 years she never slept through the night and I don't know how I managed to keep a full time stressful job at the same time, it was totally worth it as she changed me for the better. I was a doormat and she inspired me to be confident and strong because I figured that for my daughter to be happy in life she needs a mum who isn't walked over. This change helped me in my work life and personal life and I don't take any bullshit from anyone anymore. And what a transformation my life has been in the process! Suddenly when before I was all bogged down, I found the courage to challenge people and their behaviours which suddenly made my life easy. I could bring about this change only because I had to for my daughter.
Also as she is growing up, I love to spend time with her and watch her discover the world and absolutely adore her innocent explanation of everything.
My daughter absolutely completes me. So I don't want any more children. Also I want to give her the best I can in terms of time and resources and so I'm one and done.
No one can tell you what to do. But what I can say is don't think in plural terms (i.e. children); think of a child and do you see yourself enjoying nurturing and guiding the child and giving them the best childhood you possibly can. Since you are already maternal with other children, I think the caring side would come naturally to you. The finances from what you describe in your post also seems comfortable for a single child. The rest is meticulous planning and not being ashamed of asking for help from friends or family or paying for childcare services.
Remember it's a slog for the first 4 years. Once they start school and can talk and express their ideas, conversations can be very pleasant and interesting. Your child takes you to a very innocent, lovely world.
Now it's up to you to decide if you want to do the slog for these beautiful moments.

And yes, I always knew (as an adult) that I wanted them.

I always really wanted children. Desperately. My body craved them, I felt like I had a hole in my chest which was only filled when I fell pregnant.
I have two now, and I love them so much and wouldn't change them. But I do kind of wish we were an only child family. And there are many days when I wish I hadn't had children. They take up so much time. My still don't fucking sleep and I'm regularly up several times a night (they're 5 and 3). Youngest has a speech delay and he has so much frustration about his inability to communicate effectively with us which leads to incredible meltdowns. It's really, really hard.

I wouldn't do it in your position.

DH is not really bothered

Don’t have kids with him then. You’ll end up doing 90% of everything

This thread isn’t miserable.

Having kids has enriched our lives immeasurably - but that’s because we have really nice kids. Many, many, many are not! And you can’t tell before hand which version you’re going to get.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying to someone - if you’re not really sure, don’t do it.

The world would be a much better place if more people who thought they might not make the best parents just didn’t do it.

Seriously:

DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN IF YOU FEEL THIS WAY.

I can’t shout it loud enough.

Both DH and I wanted them, no way could we have got through the early years without that strong desire to have DC and build a family and suck up the hard bits. If we'd both been ambivalent it would've been hell. In your position, I wouldn't take the risk. You may both take to it like ducks to water - I have at least 2 friends who didn't want kids, but got pregnant by accident and it's been great for them - but I wouldn't have wanted to be anything less than 100% all in. It's so life changing and all consuming, if you have doubts about whether you want it, don't do it.

I always wanted children even from quite young and I was broody young. I had my first at 22yo and then went on to have three more. I haven’t had any adult life without still caring for a child yet. My eldest two are adults and the youngest is 12 now. I’m getting my own life back and it feels nice. Having children is a long, long journey that I hadn’t anticipated when thinking of having a baby or toddlers. I certainly don’t regret having my children but it has defined my life. However, I love having adult children. I like that they will be there but not ‘need’ me in the way a child does and I like that in a few years there could be grandchildren to look forward to. I love having a family but it isn’t the easy choice and I ended up a single parent when the youngest was two so raising her from little was a different experience to raising my older ones. The thing I may have done differently, with hindsight, would have been to stop at two children as I’d be free from caring responsibilities now. Having children can also impact finances and I’ve spent my life fairly poor as I never got going with a career.

To counter a lot of these arguments, I find sometimes that the people that really really want children sometimes struggle a bit more with the reality. The people that are on the fence are normally so because they recognise that its really hard work, that their lifestyle will change massively, that there are negatives as well as positives, and they take the decision already knowing this.

If you do decide to have them, I'd have a list of things you really really want to do that you can't do with a young kid first and get it done.

I'd also sit down and discuss things like how you share finances when the baby is there, how youd split paternity leave, what the person at home would be expected to do in terms of chores because they were off (I've seen opinions range from 'look after the baby and thats it' to 'everything since you're at home anyway'). Talk about how much time youd both still get on your own, for chilling and for hobbies. If you're both used to going out and doing your own thing, there will have to be changes and compromises otherwise one person will be left at home and get resentful. Also talk about if you have a baby that doesnt sleep great, how will night feeds be done if one of you is working and one isn't. Lastly how will you both do nursery pick up, drop off, and split sick days when they pick up bugs and cant go in. My husband changes his hours to slightly later and I changed mine to slightly earlier when we both worked in offices with a 40 min commute, so we could sort pick up and drop off. If you dont want your baby in nursery full time could you both do condensed or part time hours for example rather than one of you taking the hit

Having a baby is so much harder if you don't have a supportive partner. If your career is important to you, the only people who 'have it all' in my opinion are the high earners who can outsource a lot, or the people that have equal partners and genuinely share the load at home and with kids.

I think it's so hard having children because way back in human history, childcare was communal and we are biologically wired for that. Now we have them in small family units and it ruins lives, the mothers more than the father's.
Humans in general don't have it in them to 'give themselves up' for so very long without being miserable. Miserable parents bringing up the next generation.
It's probably a mate guarding strategy to live as families. Many mammals do mate-guarding, and human males have found a good way to mateguard through culture.

@babybrain77

I think if you're ummming and aaahing, don't!! We have this conversation in our nct group all the time. Having kids is really really tough (amazing too) - and everyone in our circle REALLY wanted them. I can't imagine getting through all the crap bits if I hasn't been 100% sure I wanted it.

Agree with this and I also would go one step further and say it isnt in a child's best interests to be born if parents aren't sure about them in the nicest possible way

My children are truly the light of my life.

I heard DH tell DS2 he would sacrifice his life for him last night (DS asking while watching action film what would Dad do in that situation).

We would never have those intense feelings without children.

Nobody could tell you whether or not you should have children, but in my experience they change everything for the better (apart from sleep and financial situation).

@WilsonMilson

I’m quite surprised by these responses. I think having children is the single most meaningful and fulfilling thing you can do in your life. It’s not easy at times, but it’s absolutely worth it. My regret is not having another, bit too old now. It’s a potentially lonely old age without children and grandchildren.

Maybe for you it was. But it’s insulting to suggest that is universally true, and for those who can’t have children, deeply hurtful as well.

And having children and grandchildren is not a guarantee that you won’t be lonely in old age. Ask anyone who works in a care home.

My mother will probably be lonely in her old age because she has made her children responsible for her emotions, and is a bitter and sad woman, and they have all distanced themselves from her.
My sister, who is childfree, has a variety of interests and friends, and I can never imagine her becoming lonely.
I think having children as the only way to not be lonely in old age is a sure fire way to end up lonely.

You've no obligation to have children, and it's obviously not something either you are desperate to do. It may well be the best thing you ever do, and absolutely change you and your life for the better, or you could end up resenting the baby.
I had never really envisioned children in my life, until I unexpectedly fell pregnant with my first baby, and it all clicked in to place. To me, it's what I was meant to do, and I now have 5 young children and wouldn't even want to think of life without them.
My sister is married with 3 very planned, grown children now, and happily admits that she would be far happier if she had remained single and childless.
Unfortunately it's one of those things you just don't know until it happened, and then it's too late!

You need to go and find those big threads of people, who love their kids to bit, regretting having them.

Neither of you are that bothered, it may be better to stay child free as honestly, kids require huge sacrifices even if your main aim in life is being a mother (and even so, you may not like it!)

Neither you nor your DH are keen on having kids, so it’d be wrong to do so. FOMO is a terrible reason for having them.

@moveblues

For those of you with kids did you always know you wanted them?

No. I was unquestioningly and strongly childfree for my entire adult life — as in, I planned not to have children, ever — as was DH. We were (and are) strongly work-focused. Then we had a brief period of umming and awing when we were late 30s, I think partly because it felt like such a counter-intuitive thing to do, and decided to ttc, while recognising (and being ok with) the fact that it might take years or not happen, and conceived the first month, to our shock. DS was born just before I turned 40. He’s a delight, and I’m glad we had him.

My point is that, if you don’t want to have a child, don’t. I think our lives would have been just as happy, but differently, had we chosen differently. But I don’t think that not having had an overpowering urge to reproduce from the age of five indicates anything at all about your suitability to parent, and/or how easy or difficult you would find it.

And nor does whether anyone else thinks you’re ‘maternal’. I’m not remotely ‘maternal’, but I’m a good enough mother.

Op you asked re those of us who have kids.. did we always want them

We have kids but never wanted them and activley planeed not to .

I believed that you should think aboit it , not just have them.I also thought that the maternal drive was a social.construct.

So , we had good jobs, travelled across europe, took a.month off work did places like india, morocco.
Both worked part time. Fantastic life.
Then ,when I was 34 , I actually sort of fell in love with my friends new born. The little.eyes, hands, the smell.
I was totally smitted and in my grew this desire to have a baby .

If someone told.me it wd pass or gave me.a tablet t9 supress it I would have taken it. If someone wd have told.me how much.my life.would.change .. such as no sleep , playing games ( i hate games) massively reduced income .. less money full time than when we were part time i mean!.. logically.i wd have run for the hills.

But i didnt.
For years and years i have struggled with parenting. I am one of the few people i kmow that will say this in my social.circle.as its a taboo.subject for many.
If you like sharing your partner with a baby and the idea of a family works then great but for ua after.having.12 years of total.freedom and not having.to.share or.time amd energy it was a real.shock. also.we had 2 dc that cd not travel.well.even to the next town they were sickin the car.

The thing is i.truley loved them wirh a deep.and ferocius passion . I forgot to.tend to me and dh relationship.and i wish someone had told me to watch out for that. He felt abandoned as i threw myself into dc care.
If i was asked now, i wd say for me as a parent you are always a parent.. not just till they are 18 as they still see themself as your child. I wd say that you always worry about them .i never.knew wqht worry was till i had dc!.
If i had my time again wd not have kids as it was so utterly joyful but so relentless. Playdates,school runs,exams,noise, no adult time ..well not much ! But alongside this the cuddles,the joy.
When strangers told me how lovley and polite they were i uses to nearly explode with pride.

No psychological holiday from it for us as no family support made it hard for us as we had so much time togther before.i hated hoildays as i wd not put them.in kids
Club so it was just parenting in a diffeent place.

Looking at the amazing young adults now ,who
Fill my life with joy amd worry, i find i cannot switch the parent mode off, but when i see their faces i am.flooded with love for them . Its like its been v v hard but the love is something i cant imagine not being there now.

This is my account for what its worth !

We both really like a life where we can pretty much do what we want when we want

In that case, do not have kids.

I spend virtually all my life doing stuff I don't really want to because I have DC.

DH and I are similar ages to you, and we've decided against children. I've never had a maternal instinct, am far too selfish to put someone else first forevet, love my sleep too much, enjoy my career and love to travel. He would have children I think if he was with someone else, and I think he would be an amazing dad, but he chose me and we've chosen our life together to include holidays/freedom/plenty of disposable income and a lot of sleep! I don't think either of us ever really question our decision, and if we do, a couple of hours with friends children normally make us crave our peaceful house

Don't have kids.

I’m surprised by people saying you definitely shouldn’t have kids just because you are ambivalent.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. I was ambivalent- turns out I love it! At the same time, of course there are times I wish I was child free.

I also know lots of people who were desperate for kids and don’t really enjoy parenting- they would probably be the ones who’d think twice if they could turn back the clock.

You are probably just being realistic that it means lots of changes in your life.

I suppose it comes down to whether you think you’d like family life and all that brings 🤷‍♀️

Realise this is no help whatsoever!

I think your mother should not of been saying that to you OP. Did your mum state a reason why she thinks you shouldn't have kids?

I always knew I wanted kids from an early teen and I knew I wanted to be a young mum. Other than that I didn't have a clue about the rest.... I didn't have a no of kids in mind..

I now have 1 DC. I think maybe you and your OH can dicuss this in 18months and see how you feel again.

IMO you need to really want a baby. And it doesn’t sound as if you do at all, so probably best to stay as you are.
Having said that, some women who weren’t particularly bothered do very quickly become besotted, but it’s not a risk I’d want to take.