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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Feeling guilty for getting my cat neutered

559 replies

Sammy900 · 05/11/2021 22:45

Hey

Just wondering what other peoples views are and if I'm overthinking it or being unreasonable? I just want different opinions, experiences really so I can weigh up both sides....

Today our handsome boy cat went to the vets and was neutered and I've never felt so ethically uneasy and awful about making a decision for a pet. I feel like I've taken away his right to reproduce :(

Everyone keeps telling me it's for the best, he will be less likely to get into fights and be exposed to other illnesses from that, he won't spray around the house. We have two cats a boy and girl and they are brother and sister so it would be a whole load of wrongness later on ....

I just feel so uncomfortable about it, so much that I don't want anymore male pets now that I have to face this decision for. I love my pets and I suppose in some ways, further down the line of the argument it's unfair/restrictive to prevent anything from living a wild and free life.

I guess what I'm seeking is to weigh it all up and get my thoughts in the right frame and hopefully come to the conclusion that it WAS the best decision....any thoughts or experiences of a similar vein ? un-neutered pets that were a nightmare?

What does everyone else think?

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 17:30

@StrapOnSallyChasedMeDownTheAli

If it's about ethics, can you look at all the animals crammed into whatever shelter has room for them and say that's ethical? The ethics of letting pets have one litter because someone believes it's ethical v the ethics of letting pets have one litter, adding to that the multiplier effect and knowing that some of those pets down the line are going to lead a life of misery. And who's there trying to pick up the pieces and the tab? None of those careless breeders, that's for sure.
Yes as I said above I agree with this - and don't want to be adding to that problem via consequence......because I cannot control what other pet handlers do essentially

Neither can anyone, including pedigree breeders or other people involved in the reproduction of pets

Does that then mean we should sterilise the whole population?

OP posts:
Dillidilly · 07/11/2021 17:33

Apologies @Sammy900, I missed the quotation mark at the end.

But sadly, I do still think you are amusing yourself with us, so I'll leave you to it.

StrapOnSallyChasedMeDownTheAli · 07/11/2021 17:33

Getting your pet vaccinated versus ALLOWING your pet to possibly get sick and die from the many preventable illnesses out there that are horrific for them if they contract them.

You've had sound advice throughout this thread from vets and many experienced cat owners/rescuers. I hope for your cats sake you do the right thing for her. I'm bailing out now as I find your 'concerns' on 'ethics' quite disturbing. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 17:34

@Wingutyoy

To be honest OP I think this thread is not actually about your cats as you have already made your mind up before you posted. You revel in some sort of power trip, superiority complex and attention seeking this thread is giving you, playing people who are giving you advice. I honestly believe others should stop trying as others have said this is like a game to you. I feel very sorry for any pets you actually own.
I have a gut feeling that something is wrong with pet animal sterilization for the whole as a blanket rule.... but this side of the argument is completely against the mass view.

I'm in a minority here trying to get some points across...if you think that's a power trip then you are mistaken

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 17:37

@StrapOnSallyChasedMeDownTheAli

Getting your pet vaccinated versus ALLOWING your pet to possibly get sick and die from the many preventable illnesses out there that are horrific for them if they contract them.

You've had sound advice throughout this thread from vets and many experienced cat owners/rescuers. I hope for your cats sake you do the right thing for her. I'm bailing out now as I find your 'concerns' on 'ethics' quite disturbing. Good luck with whatever you decide.

I've had all my pets vaccinated -you've misread... I was quoting another source but O.K fine

Thanks for your input people leaving the thread

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 17:48

@NeverDropYourMooncup

Ok, let's put it another way.

I took on a young cat because she was being maltreated by the original owner's child. I was assured that she'd been spayed.

She was irritable, grumpy, hissy and hated everybody with the exception of the other cats (one neutered male and one spayed female), which I assumed was due to her previous treatment.

Couple of months later, her behaviour changed a little and she seemed to have a particular liking for any men. She got a bit vocal, but maybe that was due to being around two other cats that could talk for England. And she became prone to lashing out at the other cats and any female humans. But maybe that was still the trauma? After all, she'd been spayed, so it couldn't be that. Then she quietened down after a week.

Two weeks later, she called, yelled, writhed around, stunk the place out by peeing all over the place, offered herself up to the cats and any random man that came to the door and became very interested in the stench of a neighbour's entire Tom that he was now leaving against our front door every day. So we had to deal with female cat piss smell and tom cat piss smell. The kids started being woken up by cat fights outside the window at 3am. I booked the first available vet appointment for her, which was two weeks' later.

For that entire time, she constantly writhed, howled and was utterly miserable and angry. She didn't sleep, didn't eat, everywhere smelled and we felt under siege from the desperate Tom cats that all gravitated towards our home. We were also miserable as it meant none of us got a moment's sleep - and apparently, once cats reach a certain age, they don't always only have two seasons/two weeks a year of this, they are continually in season all the time.

We took her for her spaying appointment (and got her vaccinated at the same time because, as the vet pointed out, if they hadn't had her spayed, chances were that that their claims she'd been vaccinated were equally untrustworthy). She came back as a chilled, happy, contented and affectionate cat who loved playing with the kids, slept peacefully all night and never peed anywhere she shouldn't. She's curled up next to me right now, 17 years later. If I'd let her out, I probably wouldn't have seen her again, as she was/is a pretty thing and somebody would have taken the opportunity to make some money out of any kittens.

The other cat is disabled - he suffered brain damage in the womb due to his mother contracting cat flu. He can't sit on the floor without falling over. Presumably his mother's owner didn't believe in vaccination either. Or she escaped and caught it from the male that fathered him and the rest of the litter (all but one other kitten died because of this condition, by the way).

You have the power to take that miserable, piss stinking, howling, sleepless existence away from your cat. That existence that potentially condemns her to abscesses, cat flu, FIV, risks inherent in giving birth, having kittens die, possibly dying herself, constantly in danger or feeling that she is in danger. And you'll be able to sleep at night and not be woken up by all the local toms screaming and howling or her yowling to them and having to clean up the pervasive stench of cat piss from both sides of the front door.

Sorry I've not got back to your post yet....

Yes it must be frustrating for them..if when they develop and the drive kicks in all they want to do is go out/off

and they aren't just pet kitties anymore they have another purpose that takes them away from being just our pets

this is exactly the concept I'm struggling with really....

If we had adopted two rescue kittens I wouldn't even have to consider these interventions as they'd already be done...but I didn't

I regret not looking into things beforehand and considering getting rescued cats

My two are gorgeous though, I don't regret them! I mean in principle

OP posts:
LittleDandelionClock · 07/11/2021 18:20

@Sammy900

I'm still not at a final decision, my answer currently, is the same as the one I gave a while ago no need to keep asking...

Ooooooh, I shall consider myself royally scolded. Wink

I'll let you all know when I've made my decision - until then I'm still looking into it...

I shall wait with baited breath. I don't think I will sleep properly again though until you give us your decision! How exciting. I can't wait!!!!!!!

. For the avoidance of doubt, I AM being sarcastic. Hmm

I was one of the 1% of posters on this thread who was not being negative or rude to you, and was actually defending you, and saying although I don't necessarily agree with you, I kind of 'get it,' that you are worried about 'messing with nature...' Although, as I said, you still need to have your female cat neutered.

Wish I hadn't bothered now. You're not worth the effort. You're just becoming really irksome now actually.

I'm hiding the thread now, as I've had enough of you. It's pretty clear that you do NOT intend to have your female cat neutered, despite all the advice to say you should, and the explanations - from professionals who look after animals for a living - advising you to get her neutered.

This 'I haven't decided yet' bollocks is nothing but attention-seeking, childish crap, and as a few posters have said, you seem to be revelling in the attention you're getting, and how angry you are making people...

Do what the fuck you like. As I said, I'm done with you now. I'm hiding the thread. It's just boring and pathetic.

I'm out.

@Wingutyoy

To be honest OP I think this thread is not actually about your cats as you have already made your mind up before you posted. You revel in some sort of power trip, superiority complex and attention seeking this thread is giving you, playing people who are giving you advice. I honestly believe others should stop trying as others have said this is like a game to you. I feel very sorry for any pets you actually own.

100% this! ^ In a nutshell!

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 18:23

I agree with this that I've just read......(posting from another source - not my quote)

"Shelters euthanizing cats and dogs in gas chambers by the hundreds of thousands on a yearly basis is far more cruel and unnatural. Despite the best efforts of rescue organizations, this is not going to change any time soon. We already have an overpopulation of dogs and cats and we should do whatever we can to prevent adding to it.

I would argue that a pet becoming aggressive after surgery might have more to do with the stress and possible loss of trust that can be involved in a vet visit, not necessarily due to the surgery itself. It is far more common for the pet to become docile after losing hormone production. So the aggression would be behavioral rather than physiological.

I would also look at the happiness and quality of life of the pet. An unsterilized animal's primary goal will br to reproduce. How miserable would they be kept inside and guarded all their life and denied the ability to act on their natural instinct? On the other hand, it would be terribly irresponsible to allow unfixed pets to roam and procreate at will. Once you decide to have a pet, you have already decided to alter their natural behavior.

If we were not already neck deep in an over population crisis, the arguments against sterilization might have more merit. It hits me as too little, too late."

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 18:36

Yikes! Aggressive much!

LittleDandelionClock

Ok bye thanks for your input

OP posts:
SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 07/11/2021 18:43

@Sammy900 - do you want all the local intact Tom cats haunting your house, yowling outside, fighting each other, pissing everywhere (and it will stink) when your cat is in season?

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 19:14

[quote SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]@Sammy900 - do you want all the local intact Tom cats haunting your house, yowling outside, fighting each other, pissing everywhere (and it will stink) when your cat is in season?[/quote]
Well no not really! Not personally no...

But is that a good enough reason for me to decide to spay my cat

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 19:29

Well I'm feeling absolutely drained after debating this issue over the past few days...

I'm going to have a break now. Thanks for all your advice and info.

Did not appreciate the rudeness but it's hot topic and was up against the vast majority so o.k, have not reported anybody

Some got cross or questioned my authenticity when I didn't automatically bend over and agree to their view - but that's not my problem

Still looking into things and reading interesting points ...but I'll take it elsewhere now

I'll leave the thread open if peeps want to add anymore and anyone that's interested I'll update in the future

Keep on looking after your pets :)
Bye for now

OP posts:
GumsAndTeeth · 07/11/2021 19:51

This is such a sad thread.

Honestly @Sammy900 you can’t really call it a moral/ ethical pondering if you are only going to let her do it once. If you cared so much about not interfering with nature you would let her get pregnant as many times as she can. She doesn’t need to experience it because you as her owner have a moral obligation to ensure her safety - especially if you let her outside and that means making sure there are less cats for her to fight, catch diseases from or get harassed/pregnant by. You cannot just decide you will let her have one litter and then spay - as per the advice you have shared, it’s worse.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 07/11/2021 20:27

It would definitely be a good enough reason for me, @Sammy900! Tom cat urine reeks.

Furries · 07/11/2021 23:06

Bloody hell, popped back here and am (not) surprised to see that the OP is still “musing” over their views re the “ethics” of doing the best thing for their cat.

Hundreds of posts which, in varying ways, explain why they should be neutered/spayed. Yet still the OP is twisting and turning their words to regurgitate the same old shite - and I seriously think they’re getting a kick out of being deliberately goady.

Think it’s fairly obvious that, in the not too distant future, there will be kittens advertised for sale - and so the bloody cycle continues re backyard breeding.

minipie · 08/11/2021 08:18

I would bet my hat that OP wants the experience of having kittens for herself. “Just one litter” is usually about this IMO.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 08/11/2021 09:43

I can sympathise with that, @minipie - when I was a kid, my parents decided to let our cats (nominally mine and my sister's) have a litter each, and it was great fun for us having kittens in the house.

But knowing what I know now - about the risks to the cat, the potential appearance and nuisance of tom cats arriving, the number of cats already in shelters - I wouldn't let a cat have 'just one' litter.

Dh and I did consider, briefly, letting our brown lab have one litter before she was spayed, but we read the advice from vets, and we knew that we didn't know enough to help her raise the puppies or to make sure they all went to good homes, so we put her health first, and had her spayed. Puppies are cute - and lab puppies are the cutest - but there was no way we would indulge ourselves at the possible cost of our dog's health and the welfare of any potential puppies.

Sammy900 · 08/11/2021 20:43

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

Thank you for sympathising :)

OP posts:
BonesInTheOcean · 08/11/2021 21:13

I'll leave the thread open if peeps want to add anymore and anyone that's interested I'll update in the future

That's good of you to leave the thread open Hmm

Sammy900 · 08/11/2021 21:37

For interest, here is a summary of the pro's and cons I've come across so far.. that other people have pointed out to me, and other things I've read.....

Arguments for getting cats neutered:

1)-There is a responsibility if you have a pet, not to add to the increasing overpopulation of abused and mistreated and abandoned cats ....by unfit owners

2)-Because the mating process itself in this species is aggressive and can be harmful

3)-To keep them alive for longer, and prevent them experiencing certain illnesses and risks associated with pregnancy/birth

4)-To keep them like baby pets forever, with nice cuddly behaviour

5)-To stop them wandering off, roaming away, running off

6)-To reduce their drive to want to intermingle with other cats

7)-Stop them smelling /spraying in the house

8)-Some argue that ALL pets should never be allowed to breed and be sterilized, eventually eradicated

9)-Some people feel that All animal breeders are ethically wrong.

10)-Keeping a pet intact and then preventing it to be able to mate - leads to a very miserable life for the pet owner and the pet.

11)-By having a "pet" in the first place you are signing up to accepting that you are controlling all aspects of its life and you make decisions for it.

  1. To prevent it from developing hormonal drives and changes in behaviour.

Arguments against getting cats neutered

    • Its fundamentally changing it's natural design and altering future development, biological drives and behaviour. Leaving a pet intact is giving consideration to the needs of the whole animal, accepting that it's going to change as it develops and allowing that.

2)-it's based on a presumption that reproduction and having litters is essentially "bad" for the animal which is vs it's natural drive to do so

3)- Operations, especially spaying are not risk free and can have detrimental consequences for the cat

  1. Life altering operations can effect hormone development and can change the personality of the pet

    • Some argue that cats are actually only partially domesticated pets as they are free to roam (if they go outdoors) and thus freely intermingle with other cats that do the same
  2. Some animal rights arguments are that if we were to have pets it more ethical to co-exist and enable them to have as natural a life as possible - thus not enforcing strict control over everything, just some things.

  3. Some owners take good care of their pets and if they have litters they try to ensure they go to a good homes (they don't all end up in rescue centres)

  4. Domesticated pets do still reproduce, like it or not, so how do we ensure this is done in an ethical way via education

  5. Brutal animal mating rituals are out of our hands - nothing to do with human control

  6. Some argue that it's not ethical to have a pet at all - and just let animals live a free life. Some say making an animal a pet for life is cruel and just for human selfish reward

  7. Some pets actually like being mother/fathers and having litters and nurturing them.

  8. To allow it to develop hormonal drives and changes in behaviour.

Have I missed anything obviously out of either sides? Please feel free to add :)

OP posts:
SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 08/11/2021 23:32

For me, @Sammy900, it comes down to one question - how certain are you that you have the skills necessary to make absolutely sure the kittens will go to responsible owners?

As I said earlier - one of the reasons we didn’t let ddog1 have a litter of puppies was that we knew we didn’t have the knowledge or skills necessary to assess their potential owners, and make sure they would care for the puppies properly.

I would also say that, simply by domesticating cats, we have changed their natural design already, and therefore any assessment of what is right for them should be based on how they are now, as domesticated animals, not on how they used to be before they were domesticated (or, more accurately, before they enslaved us).

Sammy900 · 09/11/2021 05:48

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

"For me, @Sammy900, it comes down to one question - how certain are you that you have the skills necessary to make absolutely sure the kittens will go to responsible owners?"

Yes I agree actually...this is one of the strongest points playing on my mind in the arguments for neutering

But then the counter side is...domestic pets, not just pedigree, expensive ones are still in reproduction / how is this ethically managed? (normal bog standard moggie breeders?...I wonder how they do it....they can't all be evil profit making scumbags without a conscience)

Afterall that's how anyone ends up with a baby pet in the first place....and I'm sure as responsible good pet owners you are giving them the best homes.

I am seeking advice and education to look at all sides....if at the end of it weighing it up I decide we don't have the necessary skills to provide the best care and welfare for all then the best option would be to spay.

Any bog standard moggie breeders out there have any opinions or advice?

It seems as it's quite a controversial topic a lot of people might not dare to say that they've allowed their domestic pet to reproduce - but that's a shame it's gone closet style as they might actually be able to share some good advice? (you're not telling me all the people talking about their pregnant pets on the pets boards are because it happened "accidentally")

OP posts:
Allergictoironing · 09/11/2021 08:18

For me, one of the biggest arguments re breeding one's own non-pedigree litter isn't so much whether you can be sure the homes you find them will be good ones, but that if there are 6 kittens in a litter, that's 6 fewer decent homes for cats in rescues. There is currently a surplus of cats needing homes, and any more born at present will just add to that surplus.

We aren't talking about preventing any breeding whatsoever of cats. But for as long as feral cats, cats owned by irresponsible people who don't bother to have them neutered/spayed, and backyeard breeders continue to produce more kittens than there are homes for, the rest of us should do what we can to prevent even MORE of an excess.

I will have a look at your pro/anti post in a mo, and try to respond to some of your points there.

Allergictoironing · 09/11/2021 09:08

Argh! Just spent ages on the post, for it to vanish into the aether. Don't have time to do it all again now, but my summarised points below.

Neutering doesn't keep them as "Baby" pets forever, they still grow up and act as adults in many ways, just less aggressive and without a mating drive. It also doesn't stop them wanting to socialise with other cats, just less likely to fight or try to mate. Points 8 and 9 in the "pro" list are not reasons, just some people's views based on various factors (some of which are part of your list)

I feel you were "reaching" to get as many "anti" points in to match the "pro" points. As with the "pro", any point that relates to people's opinion, as opposed to scientific research, isn't really relevant as they are views based on interpretations.

All the "anti" points relating to a) risks of operations and b) behavioral changes, have been covered by experts above e.g. vets. Over many years, the evidence has proved that the benefits of neutering vastly outweigh the (very minor) potential risks. This is both physically, in reducing the chances of illnesses such as pyometra and cancers, and behaviorally by reducing roaming, fighting etc.

Regarding existing breeders, they don't just breed randomly. Not only are matings chosen to enhance desirable characteristics in the offspring, but to reduce the chances of genetic issues such as PRA (blindness), kidney disease and heart disease, and also to ensure that the animal isn't mated to closely back to related animals.

Yuledo · 09/11/2021 09:24

I’m feeling guilty about having my male dog castrated. Not because I want him to have sex or puppies, but because the lack of hormones will change his little personality and he’ll be “different”.

He’s still going to be done though, but I do feel sad about it.