Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Feeling guilty for getting my cat neutered

559 replies

Sammy900 · 05/11/2021 22:45

Hey

Just wondering what other peoples views are and if I'm overthinking it or being unreasonable? I just want different opinions, experiences really so I can weigh up both sides....

Today our handsome boy cat went to the vets and was neutered and I've never felt so ethically uneasy and awful about making a decision for a pet. I feel like I've taken away his right to reproduce :(

Everyone keeps telling me it's for the best, he will be less likely to get into fights and be exposed to other illnesses from that, he won't spray around the house. We have two cats a boy and girl and they are brother and sister so it would be a whole load of wrongness later on ....

I just feel so uncomfortable about it, so much that I don't want anymore male pets now that I have to face this decision for. I love my pets and I suppose in some ways, further down the line of the argument it's unfair/restrictive to prevent anything from living a wild and free life.

I guess what I'm seeking is to weigh it all up and get my thoughts in the right frame and hopefully come to the conclusion that it WAS the best decision....any thoughts or experiences of a similar vein ? un-neutered pets that were a nightmare?

What does everyone else think?

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 14:17

O.k

Breeders - can't always be SURE and guarantee a good home, that was one of my counter arguments, there is also a danger that a pedigree pet might get used continuously just for breeding for financial gain if in the wrong hands. So added dangers there ....also unethical - is that a good quality / happy life for them?

Can any of them truly be SURE that all health related concerns are eliminated - no of course not - all we can do is the best that we can manage by our pets...

Is forcing a cat to be impregnated under your control and in an arranged way fair? Another one of my counter arguments....also unethical

Of course if I were to be responsible for a litter of kittens I would do everything possible to ensure their welfare is looked after including trying my best to ensure they went to a good quality home.

Towards the end of your entry you seem to suggest that animals shouldn't be allowed to reproduce what-so-ever due to over-population of unwanted pets in rescue centres- and that is something that makes me really sad....It's awful that those poor animals have had to suffer abuse and abandonment by shit owners but ...

Does that then give us the right to prevent them reproducing per se, so no litters allowed at all for the benefit of the whole/ the ones that are mistreated and in rescue centres

....even ones that are looked after properly and go on to make really lovely pets in a responsible good home?

Like I have said before the animal mating ritual might be brutal - but again this is out of my control...I don't get to decide how animals mate......I don't want my cat to come to any harm / but neither do I want to prevent her from what she would otherwise want to do/ have the drive to do if she were left to develop naturally

OP posts:
godmum56 · 07/11/2021 14:21

@Sammy900

O.k

Breeders - can't always be SURE and guarantee a good home, that was one of my counter arguments, there is also a danger that a pedigree pet might get used continuously just for breeding for financial gain if in the wrong hands. So added dangers there ....also unethical - is that a good quality / happy life for them?

Can any of them truly be SURE that all health related concerns are eliminated - no of course not - all we can do is the best that we can manage by our pets...

Is forcing a cat to be impregnated under your control and in an arranged way fair? Another one of my counter arguments....also unethical

Of course if I were to be responsible for a litter of kittens I would do everything possible to ensure their welfare is looked after including trying my best to ensure they went to a good quality home.

Towards the end of your entry you seem to suggest that animals shouldn't be allowed to reproduce what-so-ever due to over-population of unwanted pets in rescue centres- and that is something that makes me really sad....It's awful that those poor animals have had to suffer abuse and abandonment by shit owners but ...

Does that then give us the right to prevent them reproducing per se, so no litters allowed at all for the benefit of the whole/ the ones that are mistreated and in rescue centres

....even ones that are looked after properly and go on to make really lovely pets in a responsible good home?

Like I have said before the animal mating ritual might be brutal - but again this is out of my control...I don't get to decide how animals mate......I don't want my cat to come to any harm / but neither do I want to prevent her from what she would otherwise want to do/ have the drive to do if she were left to develop naturally

I give up....this is like playing chess with a pigeon. You know, if you have grasped any of what people have said, what will be best for your cat.
Dillidilly · 07/11/2021 14:22

@Sammy900 you say you don't want to prevent your little female from doing what she would do naturally... but if she were 'left to develop naturally' she would have litter after litter after litter until an early death!

Why don't you want to prevent that, if you care about your cat as you say you do?

VestaTilley · 07/11/2021 14:23

YABVU.

All cats should be neutered; there are millions of them, far too many and so, so many abandoned kittens.

Male cats uneutered are a nightmare - dominant, aggressive and a nuisance. Cat sex is also horrible for the females.

Please always neuter your pets.

Dillidilly · 07/11/2021 14:24

Hmmm @godmum56, I'm beginning to suspect we are all being played here

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 14:31

[quote Dillidilly]@Sammy900 you say you don't want to prevent your little female from doing what she would do naturally... but if she were 'left to develop naturally' she would have litter after litter after litter until an early death!

Why don't you want to prevent that, if you care about your cat as you say you do?[/quote]
Fair point but I wouldn't want her to have an early death either and would step in to prevent litter after litter after litter and that happening - after all she is my pet and I now have a duty to do the right thing

OP posts:
Dillidilly · 07/11/2021 14:37

You're going to let her have 1litter, aren't you...because that's what you want.

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 14:43

@Dillidilly

You're going to let her have 1litter, aren't you...because that's what you want.
Well I'm deliberating on what the best decision is....

Step in and prevent it from happening now or enable her to experience having her own litter and then get her neutered?

We all make decisions for our pets because we think we know what is best for them.

Having a pet in the first place is kind of selfish....they don't choose us we choose to have them

OP posts:
LittleDandelionClock · 07/11/2021 14:44

@Dillidilly

You're going to let her have 1litter, aren't you...because that's what you want.
Sadly, I think you're right.

I give up. No matter what anyone says, @Sammy900 is still going to let her female cat have one litter. Despite nearly all of the posts on here (from people with strong and valid opinions, to absolute professionals - who know exactly what they are talking about,) telling her to PLEASE have her female cat neutered. (And listing numerous reasons why she should.)

Can't say we didn't try...

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 14:49

Thank you for all your opinions. The decision isn't finalised yet. I've still got a gut feeling that it's wrong ethically, despite all the well reasoned out arguments in favour - they haven't been in vain. I've listened.

OP posts:
Dillidilly · 07/11/2021 14:50

@LittleDandelionClock yep ☹

StrapOnSallyChasedMeDownTheAli · 07/11/2021 14:56

Just out of interest I had a look on my local Gumtree for kittens and do you know how many litters their are just this week? 18! 18 litters of non-pedigree kittens looking for homes in such a small area. It's disgraceful, it really is. And that was just on Gumtree, I'm sure there will be more on other platforms containing many more kittens being aimlessly bred. I genuinely question the morals of those who think that this is acceptable.

iloveeverykindofcat · 07/11/2021 15:11

I'm not going to berate you OP though I really hope you spay her, but one thing to consider - what if the pregnancy or birth goes wrong? Its not that unusual. Your cat could die, or lose the kittens, or both, and/or you could be stuck with an emergency vet bill for literally thousands of pounds.

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 15:17

@iloveeverykindofcat

I'm not going to berate you OP though I really hope you spay her, but one thing to consider - what if the pregnancy or birth goes wrong? Its not that unusual. Your cat could die, or lose the kittens, or both, and/or you could be stuck with an emergency vet bill for literally thousands of pounds.
Yes that's something to think about....to also consider the statistics regarding the dangers of cat births....and how many are o.k to weigh up the associated risks
OP posts:
MoreStuffingMatron · 07/11/2021 15:19

You have done the right thing. This will ensure he doesn’t get into fights or wander.

Brusca · 07/11/2021 15:33

You are still anthropomorphising OP.

The fact that unspayed in-heat female cats will hide and try and get away from toms suggest that they don't actually want to be mated. The fact that toms aggressively hold down female cats to mate suggests this isn't something your female cat will enjoy.

The most ethical choice is not to have pets. A more ethical choice is not to contribute to anything which results in a surplus of pets. You haven't done either of those, so I'm not sure you're in a position to make claims to ethics tbh.

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 15:40

Another interesting article whilst I'm reading up:

faunalytics.org/exploring-the-ethics-of-spay-neuter/

Exploring The Ethics Of Spay And Neuter
Spay and neuter has become a default response to companion animal overpopulation. But are there instances where this practice might not be suitable?

SUMMARY BY: SARA STREETER | ORIGINAL STUDY BY: WAYNE, K. (2017) | PUBLISHED: DECEMBER 9, 2019
Photo by Erik-Jan Leusink on Unsplash

Spay and neuter campaigns are the de facto means to reduce companion animal overpopulation. They tap into the public’s sympathy for homeless animals. People become indignant at those who refuse to sterilize their charges, casting them as irresponsible louts. But spay and neuter methods are not without risks. In this chapter from Pets and People: The Ethics of Companion Animals, the author looks at the philosophical and moral dilemmas surrounding this widely accepted practice

On the surface, the issue seems simple: unconstrained reproduction leads to vast numbers of unwanted animals, mostly dogs and cats. As a result, we euthanize millions of healthy, otherwise adoptable animals each year. Routine spay and neuter prevents further births, thereby reducing the problem of too many unwanted animals. But if an animal is not allowed to reproduce, can they still have a good life? From an animal rights perspective, does mass sterilization meet our duty of care to these dependent creatures?

There are two opposing camps, the ‘welfarists’ and the abolitionists, who weigh in on the debate over animal reproduction. The tenets of welfarism encompass an animal’s right not to be harmed unnecessarily, not to be treated cruelly, and to have their welfare interests taken seriously. This framework leads welfarists to endorse sterilization as a practice that reduces the aggregate harm to animals. The abolitionists, in contrast, espouse a more forceful animal rights doctrine. In their view, animals have the right not to be treated as the property of humans. Indeed, even if the exploitative systems ended, abolitionists deem animal lives as inherently untenable because of their dependent status. Thus, they conclude that we should stop bringing domesticated animals into existence. Sterilization programs, while not ideal, become acceptable because they lead to the desired end.

While the author agrees that spay and neuter programs are permissable, she reaches her conclusion by a different route. Her philosophical framework is underpinned by an affirmative human obligation to animal welfare. In this “community membership” model, humans have a duty of care rather than a duty to refrain from harm. It’s a subtle but important distinction. In the context of spay/neuter, this means that reproduction can be constrained if it is in the interest of the animals themselves rather than the community at large. Since animals are unable to regulate their own reproduction, human action to restrict this activity is reasonable.

But, according to the author, surgical sterilization is not the answer. The author views it as morally dubious because of the potential for harm. It does not meet the criterion of benefitting the animals rather than the human community. By virtue of this argument, our duty of care requires that we find non-invasive methods to control reproduction, and then use them only when it will not negatively affect an animal’s overall quality of life. If we deprive an animal of their ability to reproduce, this should not foreclose their access to the other benefits of reproduction such as nurturing relationships. Animal advocates may be inclined to dismiss these deeper philosophical considerations in the face of overflowing shelters. But our advocacy role must include consideration of the “whole animal” and their rights and preferences. This article offers advocates the opportunity to think more deeply about these issues.

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 15:46

Well that's the summary of the article showing different points of view

OP posts:
LittleDandelionClock · 07/11/2021 15:51

Sooooo @Sammy900 Are you going to get your female cat neutered too? You MUST know by now.

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 15:52

@Brusca

You are still anthropomorphising OP.

The fact that unspayed in-heat female cats will hide and try and get away from toms suggest that they don't actually want to be mated. The fact that toms aggressively hold down female cats to mate suggests this isn't something your female cat will enjoy.

The most ethical choice is not to have pets. A more ethical choice is not to contribute to anything which results in a surplus of pets. You haven't done either of those, so I'm not sure you're in a position to make claims to ethics tbh.

I feel I'm not anthromoporphising....I'm trying to consider the needs and rights of the WHOLE animal....including questioning if it's right to whip its bits off - that animal was born with the ability to reproduce

For humans to make the decision to castrate/spay an animal - because we think it's right / and helps us to have an easier to manage pet is anthropomorphic - placing human values on an animal / mentioning the dangers of natural mating behaviour is again putting human values onto an animal -I didn't mention anything about it being a pleasant experience

My issue is - is it right for me to intervene and prevent it - with a free roaming cat for a pet

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 15:58

@LittleDandelionClock

Sooooo *@Sammy900* Are you going to get your female cat neutered too? You MUST know by now.
I'm still not at a final decision, my answer currently, is the same as the one I gave a while ago no need to keep asking...

I'll let you all know when I've made my decision - until then I'm still looking into it...

I feel that the ethical side I'm on is vastly different to most - but even so putting that aside, I may need to get over than gut feeling since I now do have a pet after weighing up ALL the pros and cons....not just one sided

The more I read the more things come into play like the above piece mentions about enabling pets to show their nurturing side, etc. ...orrrr on your side / the risks of actual birth, etc

OP posts:
lazylinguist · 07/11/2021 15:58

The fact that unspayed in-heat female cats will hide and try and get away from toms suggest that they don't actually want to be mated. The fact that toms aggressively hold down female cats to mate suggests this isn't something your female cat will enjoy.

Do you like the idea of this happening to your cat then, OP. On the grounds that it's 'natural'?

StrapOnSallyChasedMeDownTheAli · 07/11/2021 15:59

What about the rights of all the animals who have suffered as a result of negligent breeding? You are in a position to make sure that doesn't happen with any progeny of your cat. I assume she'll have a great life with you? A forever home where she will want for nothing? Why isn't that enough?

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 16:08

@lazylinguist

The fact that unspayed in-heat female cats will hide and try and get away from toms suggest that they don't actually want to be mated. The fact that toms aggressively hold down female cats to mate suggests this isn't something your female cat will enjoy.

Do you like the idea of this happening to your cat then, OP. On the grounds that it's 'natural'?

That is anthropomorphic

A female cat that is unspayed will likely have a drive and need to reproduce and that will influence her behaviour.......it's a much bigger deal that whether or not I think it's a nice practice or not.....bigger than the likes of little me choosing to pettify an animal for life.

My personal opinion is that I don't want my pets to experience any distress or harm no of course I don't....- that's sort of trying to get me to change my mind about the dilemma via emotional blackmail

OP posts:
lazylinguist · 07/11/2021 16:13

A female cat that is unspayed will likely have a drive and need to reproduce and that will influence her behaviour

Do you have any evidence that female cats have a 'need' to reproduce, or that they are not perfectly content not to reproduce? If you are right, why would they hide from tom cats as described by a previous poster?