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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Feeling guilty for getting my cat neutered

559 replies

Sammy900 · 05/11/2021 22:45

Hey

Just wondering what other peoples views are and if I'm overthinking it or being unreasonable? I just want different opinions, experiences really so I can weigh up both sides....

Today our handsome boy cat went to the vets and was neutered and I've never felt so ethically uneasy and awful about making a decision for a pet. I feel like I've taken away his right to reproduce :(

Everyone keeps telling me it's for the best, he will be less likely to get into fights and be exposed to other illnesses from that, he won't spray around the house. We have two cats a boy and girl and they are brother and sister so it would be a whole load of wrongness later on ....

I just feel so uncomfortable about it, so much that I don't want anymore male pets now that I have to face this decision for. I love my pets and I suppose in some ways, further down the line of the argument it's unfair/restrictive to prevent anything from living a wild and free life.

I guess what I'm seeking is to weigh it all up and get my thoughts in the right frame and hopefully come to the conclusion that it WAS the best decision....any thoughts or experiences of a similar vein ? un-neutered pets that were a nightmare?

What does everyone else think?

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 16:16

@StrapOnSallyChasedMeDownTheAli

What about the rights of all the animals who have suffered as a result of negligent breeding? You are in a position to make sure that doesn't happen with any progeny of your cat. I assume she'll have a great life with you? A forever home where she will want for nothing? Why isn't that enough?
Now then I happen to agree with this - and totally get that there would likely be an element of it being out of my control .....like all good responsible breeders out there (I'm not saying I'm a breeder...I'm just using it as a point to compare) , they try to do their best to ensure that the kittens are care for properly, not neglected and go to decent responsible homes as much as they are able to do so...

I'm not happy to be somehwere down the line part of this problem with other owners that are out of my control (not my pets, I can control the care I give to them) so that's something that is on my mind whilst weighing it up yes

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 16:22

@lazylinguist

A female cat that is unspayed will likely have a drive and need to reproduce and that will influence her behaviour

Do you have any evidence that female cats have a 'need' to reproduce, or that they are not perfectly content not to reproduce? If you are right, why would they hide from tom cats as described by a previous poster?

On the flip side do you have evidence to demonstrate that cats don't want to reproduce??

Ever come across many unspayed / un-neutered pets and observed their behaviours? Without our human interference

Of course we don't know for sure they all might feel differently and have individual preferences! Some might be intact but not want to...some might want to be house pets from their own preferences...some might go missing for days then come back....

If they are all just getting neutered how will we ever know? because we are already stepping in and fundamentally changing things before natural development has occurred.......

OP posts:
krankykittykat · 07/11/2021 16:29

@Sammy900

minipie I suppose I do mean his right to sex, I didn't think he'd be into the family life haha.

I totally agree with all the arguments stating that cats are domesticated by us, but sending him off to get his bit chopped off just seems like a step too far in the interference with nature - this is ultimately something I decided was the right thing to do....but I'm feeling uneasy about it.

Thankyou for the posts reassuring me that it was the right thing this is was I need to here - what happens if you don't and how the alternative can have a detrimental impact

Skysblue your comment was really helpful thank you

We have decided to let our girl cat have a litter and then get spayed...so maybe that's where the incongruence lies with my ethics

Why have you decided to let her have a litter?
hangrylady · 07/11/2021 16:34

Humans are responsible for domesticating cats and therefore we also have a responsibility to ensure their welfare. An uneutered tom cat will wander for miles to find a female in season and is at a very high risk of injury and death. Also he will produce hundreds of unwanted kittens which may end up in shelters or feral. You have 100% done the right thing.

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 16:34

krankykittykat

It's a long story / long thread! All the info is in there regarding my dilemma....I'm questioning whether or not it's the right thing to do considering my pet and it's needs as a whole ...born with the ability to reproduce vs me intervening and preventing that option

OP posts:
Tal45 · 07/11/2021 16:43

Please don't 'let' your have a litter, we really don't need any more cats in the world, the rescues are already full of them. Cats mate because if they didn't the species wouldn't continue. If they are neutered that 'want' will go away and they will be just as happy. The RSPCA say that there are no proven health or welfare benefits to cats having a litter. They also saying being pregnant and having kittens can be very stressful for a cat. If you think your cat wants/needs/deserves a litter that is likely just to be you projecting. People project all sorts of nonsense onto their pets and other animals.

www.rspca.org.uk/-/catreproductionfacts

lazylinguist · 07/11/2021 16:44

On the flip side do you have evidence to demonstrate that cats don't want to reproduce??

No, I don't. So... if we have no evidence either way of whether they really feel a need to reproduce or feel deprived if they don't, surely the best thing is to go for the most responsible choice which avoids potential dangers for the mother and potential unwanted kittens with no homes to go to?

lazylinguist · 07/11/2021 16:45

The RSPCA say that there are no proven health or welfare benefits to cats having a litter. They also saying being pregnant and having kittens can be very stressful for a cat.

There you go OP. I imagine vets will say the same.

lazylinguist · 07/11/2021 16:46

Further strong advice against here

lazylinguist · 07/11/2021 16:48

*www.reginacatrescue.com/should-cats-have-one-litter and more]]

NeverDropYourMooncup · 07/11/2021 16:49

Ok, let's put it another way.

I took on a young cat because she was being maltreated by the original owner's child. I was assured that she'd been spayed.

She was irritable, grumpy, hissy and hated everybody with the exception of the other cats (one neutered male and one spayed female), which I assumed was due to her previous treatment.

Couple of months later, her behaviour changed a little and she seemed to have a particular liking for any men. She got a bit vocal, but maybe that was due to being around two other cats that could talk for England. And she became prone to lashing out at the other cats and any female humans. But maybe that was still the trauma? After all, she'd been spayed, so it couldn't be that. Then she quietened down after a week.

Two weeks later, she called, yelled, writhed around, stunk the place out by peeing all over the place, offered herself up to the cats and any random man that came to the door and became very interested in the stench of a neighbour's entire Tom that he was now leaving against our front door every day. So we had to deal with female cat piss smell and tom cat piss smell. The kids started being woken up by cat fights outside the window at 3am. I booked the first available vet appointment for her, which was two weeks' later.

For that entire time, she constantly writhed, howled and was utterly miserable and angry. She didn't sleep, didn't eat, everywhere smelled and we felt under siege from the desperate Tom cats that all gravitated towards our home. We were also miserable as it meant none of us got a moment's sleep - and apparently, once cats reach a certain age, they don't always only have two seasons/two weeks a year of this, they are continually in season all the time.

We took her for her spaying appointment (and got her vaccinated at the same time because, as the vet pointed out, if they hadn't had her spayed, chances were that that their claims she'd been vaccinated were equally untrustworthy). She came back as a chilled, happy, contented and affectionate cat who loved playing with the kids, slept peacefully all night and never peed anywhere she shouldn't. She's curled up next to me right now, 17 years later. If I'd let her out, I probably wouldn't have seen her again, as she was/is a pretty thing and somebody would have taken the opportunity to make some money out of any kittens.

The other cat is disabled - he suffered brain damage in the womb due to his mother contracting cat flu. He can't sit on the floor without falling over. Presumably his mother's owner didn't believe in vaccination either. Or she escaped and caught it from the male that fathered him and the rest of the litter (all but one other kitten died because of this condition, by the way).

You have the power to take that miserable, piss stinking, howling, sleepless existence away from your cat. That existence that potentially condemns her to abscesses, cat flu, FIV, risks inherent in giving birth, having kittens die, possibly dying herself, constantly in danger or feeling that she is in danger. And you'll be able to sleep at night and not be woken up by all the local toms screaming and howling or her yowling to them and having to clean up the pervasive stench of cat piss from both sides of the front door.

BonesInTheOcean · 07/11/2021 16:52

I completely judge ANYONE who has a cat (male or female) and doesnt neuter. Especially male cats!

Dillidilly · 07/11/2021 16:52

@lazylinguist

The RSPCA say that there are no proven health or welfare benefits to cats having a litter. They also saying being pregnant and having kittens can be very stressful for a cat.

There you go OP. I imagine vets will say the same.

They already have, up thread.

I think the OP has never had any intention of spaying their little female because they want a litter of kittens.

I think all the philosophical musings about ethics is just to play with posters and amuse the OP 😒

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 16:56

@lazylinguist

Further strong advice against here
O.k thank you for your input I will give it a read..

Have people read the other links I put up, they nicely articulate my stance I think, gives a good out of the box viewpoint.

At the end of the day the cats protection and the RSPCA and other such bodies that are advocates for animal rights/welfare are not to be ignored and I do value their advice

I've had an overwhelming response in favour of getting both my pets done and most people think I'm unreasonable on here for feeling guilty about it

So have taken that on board too

OP posts:
lazylinguist · 07/11/2021 16:56

Yes, I guess you're right @Dillidilly Sad.

Oh well. Mistake in my last link, so here it is again.

I've had 3 cats, 2 female, and currently 1 male. All neutered. All happy, friendly, affectionate cats.

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 17:03

Dillidilly

Is it really so hard to fathom that someone might have another point of view? This is totally about the ethics...I'm not interested in "playing with posters" or whatever you seem to think my hidden agenda is

If never been faced with this decision before as an adult and as a responsible pet owner and it's making me feel uneasy - is that REALLY so hard to understand?

Also talking about the Op in the third person is rude ...I can read everything you know haha

OP posts:
lazylinguist · 07/11/2021 17:13

If never been faced with this decision before as an adult and as a responsible pet owner and it's making me feel uneasy - is that REALLY so hard to understand?

I don't find it hard to understand that it might occur to you to think about the ethical implications as well as the practical ones. You're right - a responsible pet owner should take the time to reflect on what they do to care for their pet. However, given that every single thing that one can find online from vets, cat rescue places etc says the same thing, it seems odd that you are still unconvinced. Do you think you know something they don't?

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 17:13

Another interesting read from the other perspective:

About why some vets have been refusing to neuter animals

thecatsite.com/threads/ethics-of-spay-and-neuter.266403/

OP posts:
godmum56 · 07/11/2021 17:15

@Sammy900

Dillidilly

Is it really so hard to fathom that someone might have another point of view? This is totally about the ethics...I'm not interested in "playing with posters" or whatever you seem to think my hidden agenda is

If never been faced with this decision before as an adult and as a responsible pet owner and it's making me feel uneasy - is that REALLY so hard to understand?

Also talking about the Op in the third person is rude ...I can read everything you know haha

yes when the POV is so evidently batshit
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 17:17

Copied from the above link:

"I was discussing, the other day, the ethics of spaying and neutering cats and dogs. I know it's a given that we do this, and that we understand the overall net outcome to be a good thing. As a vegan, I'm concerned about granting as much autonomy to animals as possible, but at the same time, I recognize the need to control the population, since we have so many dogs and cats without homes. That's where we usually end the discussion, I feel.

But she brought up a few interesting points, and I was curious to hear whether or not you all had heard any of this before. She's definitely the science-y type, and has undoubtedly been reading journals and what not, and I'm... not that type. So what I'm providing is info summarized for a layman. Excuse the generalities, offered as I understand them. =P

According to her (and I don't know if this is true), some vets are refusing to perform a spay at all now, as it is deemed cruel. You're essentially performing major surgery to remove the reproductive organs. A neuter is less invasive. But in both cases, it messes with the hormone balance of the animals, essentially rendering them children for life. Some dogs, she said, even become depressed post-neutering, because they still have some memory of engaging in sexual activity (had they engaged in it before), and therefore a vague drive... but at the same time, no drive at all, because the hormones that drive sex are dead and gone. She notes that recovery from such major surgery can be flawed, and that the surgery itself and the new imbalance of hormones hurts the immune system.

There are also, she suggests, an increased risk of certain kinds of cancers. In dogs, at least, there is reportedly a 75% increased risk of the development of osteosarcoma. Colon cancer is at an increased risk. And while removal of the testicles eliminates testicular cancer, an emergency neuter can also be performed in the event of the development of testicular cancer, and recovery rates at this point are good.

Most of her information is based on findings in dogs (she's a dog person), but there are comparable findings in cats, apparently. I'm sure I could dig up sources from her if you guys want.

I did personally notice that Sophie became weirdly aggressive after her spay. She was always a little bratty, but it was like a flip was switched after that. She was EXTREMELY aggressive at vets, where she never had been before. And she still is.

Now, I'm not sure how much any of this is certain. But I'm wondering if you guys have heard anything about it. If it were true that spay and neuter are more bad than good, I guess we'd be faced with a number of dilemmas. Obviously it makes it harder to give a home to multiple animals, because you can't have unwanted litters everywhere. One solution would be to neuter all the males, and leave all the females unaltered. Or you could simply adopt animals that have already been fixed.

Any thoughts? I'm curious to hear what others might have to say, especially in light of my recent readings regarding the ethics of vaccinations."

OP posts:
StrapOnSallyChasedMeDownTheAli · 07/11/2021 17:20

If it's about ethics, can you look at all the animals crammed into whatever shelter has room for them and say that's ethical? The ethics of letting pets have one litter because someone believes it's ethical v the ethics of letting pets have one litter, adding to that the multiplier effect and knowing that some of those pets down the line are going to lead a life of misery. And who's there trying to pick up the pieces and the tab? None of those careless breeders, that's for sure.

Dillidilly · 07/11/2021 17:21

Wait, are you now questioning vaccinating cats too?

If you are, then I fear you are definitely enjoying this and I'm out 🙄

Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 17:21

@lazylinguist

If never been faced with this decision before as an adult and as a responsible pet owner and it's making me feel uneasy - is that REALLY so hard to understand?

I don't find it hard to understand that it might occur to you to think about the ethical implications as well as the practical ones. You're right - a responsible pet owner should take the time to reflect on what they do to care for their pet. However, given that every single thing that one can find online from vets, cat rescue places etc says the same thing, it seems odd that you are still unconvinced. Do you think you know something they don't?

Well thanks I guess....that's exactly what I'm doing taking the time to reflect.....not just going blindly in and making a snap decision when my gut feeling tells me it's wrong....

Maybe if I'd thought about it beforehand I might have gone for a rescue cat instead now hearing all your views....but I didn't ...I'm a new adult cat owner and am now faced with decisions to make on their behalf

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 17:26

@Dillidilly

Wait, are you now questioning vaccinating cats too?

If you are, then I fear you are definitely enjoying this and I'm out 🙄

No not at all - that was part of the quote from the link I shared (I think was on about a completely separate issue)
OP posts:
Wingutyoy · 07/11/2021 17:29

To be honest OP I think this thread is not actually about your cats as you have already made your mind up before you posted. You revel in some sort of power trip, superiority complex and attention seeking this thread is giving you, playing people who are giving you advice. I honestly believe others should stop trying as others have said this is like a game to you. I feel very sorry for any pets you actually own.