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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Feeling guilty for getting my cat neutered

559 replies

Sammy900 · 05/11/2021 22:45

Hey

Just wondering what other peoples views are and if I'm overthinking it or being unreasonable? I just want different opinions, experiences really so I can weigh up both sides....

Today our handsome boy cat went to the vets and was neutered and I've never felt so ethically uneasy and awful about making a decision for a pet. I feel like I've taken away his right to reproduce :(

Everyone keeps telling me it's for the best, he will be less likely to get into fights and be exposed to other illnesses from that, he won't spray around the house. We have two cats a boy and girl and they are brother and sister so it would be a whole load of wrongness later on ....

I just feel so uncomfortable about it, so much that I don't want anymore male pets now that I have to face this decision for. I love my pets and I suppose in some ways, further down the line of the argument it's unfair/restrictive to prevent anything from living a wild and free life.

I guess what I'm seeking is to weigh it all up and get my thoughts in the right frame and hopefully come to the conclusion that it WAS the best decision....any thoughts or experiences of a similar vein ? un-neutered pets that were a nightmare?

What does everyone else think?

OP posts:
iloveeverykindofcat · 07/11/2021 10:57

I don't think sex is fun and fulfilling to them like it hopefully is for us...cats and dogs in heat seem to be pretty frantic really. The only time my family had an uneutered pet was when my parents where still in Iraq and it wasn't really common practice. They took her in as a puppy someone found. Anyway she died young because while in heat she climbed the garden wall ran into the road and got hit by a car. An Intact tomcat has a good chance of a similar fate even if normally road savvy. They are so driven to mate it overrides their road sense.

LittleDandelionClock · 07/11/2021 11:09

@iloveeverykindofcat

I don't think sex is fun and fulfilling to them like it hopefully is for us...cats and dogs in heat seem to be pretty frantic really. The only time my family had an uneutered pet was when my parents where still in Iraq and it wasn't really common practice. They took her in as a puppy someone found. Anyway she died young because while in heat she climbed the garden wall ran into the road and got hit by a car. An Intact tomcat has a good chance of a similar fate even if normally road savvy. They are so driven to mate it overrides their road sense.
I think the OP is more worried about depriving her female cat of having kittens, rather than her getting an orgasm. Grin

Still agree neutering is best in most cases though. Smile

@Sammy900 Hope you've made the decision to neuter your lovely female kitty. Smile

Original poster
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 12:05

Yes It's not some weird thing about the act in particular, people who think that have again misunderstood what I mean (ha)

It's intervening and preventing their natural drive (look how much it takes over and how desperate they are) and ability to reproduce ...they were born with those organs and would go on to develop hormones or whatever is needed to urge them to have babies....

It's the idea of me interfearing with that and maiming them for life because I want a nice friendly pet, a kitty forever

Yes there are lots of other aspects that I control when opting to have a pet but this to me is much further down the line of ethics and makes me feel uncomfortable

Humans, as well as animals are born with reproductive organs and the ability to mate and as we get older, hormones develop and massively influence behaviour the same as animals....I remember feeling broody before I had my children for years!! - Obviously as humans we have choices though and more freedom to express our drives as we wish...

Imagine if we just went around completely castrating boys as babies and giving baby girls hysterectomies.....because we were overpopulated or just decided it was for the best for them...so they can be stress free and undriven

What are your views about other countries putting a cap on how many babies families are allowed to have? So as a point - also interfering with nature.....look at the after effects of that interference.

I know humans are different to animals. We don't tend to keep human pets (ha!) I'm just making a point about intervention and interference.

Why is it simply o.k for humans to decide that fate and intervene with animals - for the humans gain - to have a cute pet. It just seems so wrong in my gut.

I do appreciate the points most people have made ...and I have listened I'm not ignoring the advice all the posters have given...and I will most likely go on to get my girl cat spayed after all I DO have her as a pet now regardless of my ponderings.

Still struggling with the ethics though

OP posts:
godmum56 · 07/11/2021 12:14

@LittleDandelionClock
"Not trying to be goady, but why did you not spay your dogs?"

I can answer that. Dogs and cats are different species and the issues are different. Neutering either sex of dog when young can affect their skeletal growth and can also affect them mentally. Bitches vary in their in season behaviour so there isn't always the incessant randiness of the queen cat in season. Dogs, too vary more than cats do. My first entire dog absolutely did not care about bitches, and stayed entire his whole life; my current dog, and his brother would leg it after any bitch in season or not despite having a rock solid recall in all other circumstances. I have had a bitch who wanted to be mated when in season and so she was spayed, the last bitch I had had no interest at all so she stayed entire. Yes neutering avoids pyometra and testicular cancer but the stats are not huge for testicular cancer, a little higher for pyo but neutering brings its only issues with weight management mental developement and coat mangement issues which aren't only cosmentic but can cause problems which affect the dog like coat matting. In the UK too, in season bitches are more easily managed, male dogs have almost no chance of congregating in packs and fighting.
It really does vary from animal to animal, Ferret seasons have to be very carefully managed as if a jill isn't mated or has her season artificially ended, it can kill her. There is now an option with jills to give an implant to prevent this. Rabbits are different again.

Rescues tend to be blanket pro neutering of dogs and I can understand why but there is no doubt in my mind/having read the research, that the argument is more nuanced for dogs than it is for cats, especially for cats who are not confined to their owner's property.

Dillidilly · 07/11/2021 12:20

@Sammy900

Yes It's not some weird thing about the act in particular, people who think that have again misunderstood what I mean (ha)

It's intervening and preventing their natural drive (look how much it takes over and how desperate they are) and ability to reproduce ...they were born with those organs and would go on to develop hormones or whatever is needed to urge them to have babies....

It's the idea of me interfearing with that and maiming them for life because I want a nice friendly pet, a kitty forever

Yes there are lots of other aspects that I control when opting to have a pet but this to me is much further down the line of ethics and makes me feel uncomfortable

Humans, as well as animals are born with reproductive organs and the ability to mate and as we get older, hormones develop and massively influence behaviour the same as animals....I remember feeling broody before I had my children for years!! - Obviously as humans we have choices though and more freedom to express our drives as we wish...

Imagine if we just went around completely castrating boys as babies and giving baby girls hysterectomies.....because we were overpopulated or just decided it was for the best for them...so they can be stress free and undriven

What are your views about other countries putting a cap on how many babies families are allowed to have? So as a point - also interfering with nature.....look at the after effects of that interference.

I know humans are different to animals. We don't tend to keep human pets (ha!) I'm just making a point about intervention and interference.

Why is it simply o.k for humans to decide that fate and intervene with animals - for the humans gain - to have a cute pet. It just seems so wrong in my gut.

I do appreciate the points most people have made ...and I have listened I'm not ignoring the advice all the posters have given...and I will most likely go on to get my girl cat spayed after all I DO have her as a pet now regardless of my ponderings.

Still struggling with the ethics though

Maybe having cats/any pet is not for you then?

I'm struggling to understand your continued indecision when there have been some really clear explanations from at least one vet as to why it is in your cats' very best interests to be neutered/spayed.

godmum56 · 07/11/2021 12:23

@Sammy900

Yes It's not some weird thing about the act in particular, people who think that have again misunderstood what I mean (ha)

It's intervening and preventing their natural drive (look how much it takes over and how desperate they are) and ability to reproduce ...they were born with those organs and would go on to develop hormones or whatever is needed to urge them to have babies....

It's the idea of me interfearing with that and maiming them for life because I want a nice friendly pet, a kitty forever

Yes there are lots of other aspects that I control when opting to have a pet but this to me is much further down the line of ethics and makes me feel uncomfortable

Humans, as well as animals are born with reproductive organs and the ability to mate and as we get older, hormones develop and massively influence behaviour the same as animals....I remember feeling broody before I had my children for years!! - Obviously as humans we have choices though and more freedom to express our drives as we wish...

Imagine if we just went around completely castrating boys as babies and giving baby girls hysterectomies.....because we were overpopulated or just decided it was for the best for them...so they can be stress free and undriven

What are your views about other countries putting a cap on how many babies families are allowed to have? So as a point - also interfering with nature.....look at the after effects of that interference.

I know humans are different to animals. We don't tend to keep human pets (ha!) I'm just making a point about intervention and interference.

Why is it simply o.k for humans to decide that fate and intervene with animals - for the humans gain - to have a cute pet. It just seems so wrong in my gut.

I do appreciate the points most people have made ...and I have listened I'm not ignoring the advice all the posters have given...and I will most likely go on to get my girl cat spayed after all I DO have her as a pet now regardless of my ponderings.

Still struggling with the ethics though

its not "just to have a cute pet" though. Its to do what is best for the pet that the owner accepts responsibility for. You have already interfered by taking on responsibility for your cats. That bridge is burnt. You can't take on a little bit of responsibility, its all or nothing. keep in mind to that the choice is not between "free animals" and animals being kept as pets. Its like the vegans who believe that sheep would lead lovely free wooly lives if people did not eat them....and no I know that not all vegans believe this. Where cat (or any other feral animal) populations get out of hand them humans step in and manage the situation..sometimes by trap neuter release and sometimes by poison.
Original poster
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 12:27

Like I said I've understood and took on the advice and factors for it being in my pets best interest that an overwhelming amount of people have said including a vet - and will most likely go on to do what the majority feel is the right thing...my personal nuances aside

I think it's fair to say that there are a few people that seem to have misunderstood my point of view though....or really don't want to even consider it

OP posts:
Dillidilly · 07/11/2021 12:32

But you're still saying 'most likely', @Sammy900?

I do wonder if you will let your little female have one litter, because that is what you want. Nothing really to do with your philosophical musings about ethics.
If you do, how will you feel if anything happens to her or her kittens?

Original poster
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 12:37

Dillidilly

Again, no hidden agenda. I literally wanted to hear both sides and experiences and consider the pros and cons, discuss the ethical issue.

But I can see that I've made this post too personal and people can't get over that to consider both sides and have gone a bit gung ho ....I've said I'd do the right thing by my pet

OP posts:
LittleDandelionClock · 07/11/2021 12:47

Thanks for that explanation @godmum56 Smile

Dillidilly · 07/11/2021 12:48

@Sammy900

Dillidilly

Again, no hidden agenda. I literally wanted to hear both sides and experiences and consider the pros and cons, discuss the ethical issue.

But I can see that I've made this post too personal and people can't get over that to consider both sides and have gone a bit gung ho ....I've said I'd do the right thing by my pet

The few rude comments aside, I don't think anyone has been 'gung ho'. I think everyone has been extremely concerned about the health and wellbeing of your cats.
LittleDandelionClock · 07/11/2021 12:48

@Sammy900

Dillidilly

Again, no hidden agenda. I literally wanted to hear both sides and experiences and consider the pros and cons, discuss the ethical issue.

But I can see that I've made this post too personal and people can't get over that to consider both sides and have gone a bit gung ho ....I've said I'd do the right thing by my pet

Are you going to have her neutered then Sammy? Smile
godmum56 · 07/11/2021 12:49

@LittleDandelionClock

Thanks for that explanation *@godmum56* Smile
you are welcome :)
Original poster
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 12:50

Dillidilly

Furthermore, If I left my cat as she is...she would very likely go on to have kittens - she would reproduce (maybe she wouldn't?)....it's not really about what I want...my act of intervention is to stop that and prevent what would happen naturally - not the other way around, I'm not forcing her into it ....she would be driven to do so unless I stop it all.

So the action - and doing what I want, comes when I make the decision to get her spayed and thus interfering with nature.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 12:55

Dillidilly

Exactly people have become a little too invested in my personal cats rather than looking at the wider issue - I've said that's probably my fault - there really is no need to worry they are purring away sat with me now in a house full of love and care and will absolutely have a healthy happy life as far as I can do my best by them.

OP posts:
Dillidilly · 07/11/2021 12:57

But you 'interfered with nature' the minute you decided to have a cat as a pet!

And once you do that, you have to recognise your responsibility for that animal's health and wellbeing. And you have had multiple clear, reasoned explanations, including from people who work in cat rescue as well as at least one vet, of exactly why that responsibility involves neutering/spaying.

Original poster
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 13:01

LittleDandelionClock

I'm going to look into all options, seek advice from vets and other professionals to consider both sides...she's staying indoors in the meantime....

I'm not trying to be difficult on purpose, my gut feeling is it's wrong....everyone else on here says its right and I have listened, so thank you

Message from the mumsnet poll well and truly received

OP posts:
Original poster
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 13:04

@Dillidilly

But you 'interfered with nature' the minute you decided to have a cat as a pet!

And once you do that, you have to recognise your responsibility for that animal's health and wellbeing. And you have had multiple clear, reasoned explanations, including from people who work in cat rescue as well as at least one vet, of exactly why that responsibility involves neutering/spaying.

Agreed. I have listened to all the reasoned explanations as to why spaying would benefit my cat.
OP posts:
godmum56 · 07/11/2021 13:29

@Sammy900

Dillidilly

Exactly people have become a little too invested in my personal cats rather than looking at the wider issue - I've said that's probably my fault - there really is no need to worry they are purring away sat with me now in a house full of love and care and will absolutely have a healthy happy life as far as I can do my best by them.

I think that people have addressed the wider issues....the fact that either way your cat (any queen cat) will have no choice, that the act of keeping any pet interferes with nature. What do you want folk to say? Even the ways that the domestic cat has evolved/been bred has been shaped by humans..the non interference ship has not only sailed, it has been eaten through by teredo worms and is resting on the bottom of the sea in pieces being inhabited by marine wildlife. How can you mean this if you won't spay your queen? "house full of love and care and will absolutely have a healthy happy life as far as I can do my best by them."
Original poster
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 13:40

godmum56
I love the way you've described this:

Even the ways that the domestic cat has evolved/been bred has been shaped by humans..the non interference ship has not only sailed, it has been eaten through by teredo worms and is resting on the bottom of the sea in pieces being inhabited by marine wildlife.

....but I hate to break the news, domesticated pets still reproduce - the old school way.

That is how anyone ever can have a puppy or a kitten

OP posts:
Original poster
Sammy900 · 07/11/2021 13:43

I've put the question about breeders of pets out there and whether that is right then?

Some people believe that pets should never be bred at all .....this seems very far fetched to me...why stop there what about all animals? Why should any of them be able to breed if that's what you think....hey why even stop there what about countries that are over populated / rife with deadly diseases, children/babies abandoned - should they be castrated too?

hmmm

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 07/11/2021 13:52

@LittleDandelionClock not goady in the slightest!!! I will not breed. And pyometra is a worry. BUT they are wolfhounds. A breed very prone to osteosarcoma. The risk of this is increased by spaying. So I haven’t. But it’s a real balancing act between cancer and risk of pyo.

godmum56 · 07/11/2021 13:59

@Sammy900

godmum56 I love the way you've described this:

Even the ways that the domestic cat has evolved/been bred has been shaped by humans..the non interference ship has not only sailed, it has been eaten through by teredo worms and is resting on the bottom of the sea in pieces being inhabited by marine wildlife.

....but I hate to break the news, domesticated pets still reproduce - the old school way.

That is how anyone ever can have a puppy or a kitten

yup and I have addressed this. If you can be SURE that the kittens will go to good permanent homes, that you have a waiting list for those kittens with non refundable deposits, that your cat has no health problems including genetic ones, that you can afford to pay a stud fee to use a stud who is tested clear of cat diseases and inherited problems, then if that stud owner will let you use her tom, because good stud owners are choosey people, AND to cover all the costs of that litter...then you will STILL be doing cats and kittens in rescue out of the good homes that the kittens YOU want will take up. And you will still be putting your queen cat through an unpleasant experience to salve your conscience. Either way she gets no choice. And just letting her go oyt in season and take her chances has already been covered on here. NO caring owner would even consider that for a millisecond.
godmum56 · 07/11/2021 14:00

[quote Wolfiefan]@LittleDandelionClock not goady in the slightest!!! I will not breed. And pyometra is a worry. BUT they are wolfhounds. A breed very prone to osteosarcoma. The risk of this is increased by spaying. So I haven’t. But it’s a real balancing act between cancer and risk of pyo.[/quote]
yes, aren't they also one of those breeds who need hormones to naturally complete bone growth? Some large breeds, if neutered or spayed early end up with longer thinner bones than they should which also puts them at risk of injury as adults

godmum56 · 07/11/2021 14:14

@Sammy900

I've put the question about breeders of pets out there and whether that is right then?

Some people believe that pets should never be bred at all .....this seems very far fetched to me...why stop there what about all animals? Why should any of them be able to breed if that's what you think....hey why even stop there what about countries that are over populated / rife with deadly diseases, children/babies abandoned - should they be castrated too?

hmmm

and I have answered you but here is my answer again

NO ONE should be breeding pet animals unless they have a confirmed waiting list of carefully vetted people for all of the young expected plus a few spares in case circs change.

Breeders should expect to be responsible for producing young of excellent health, conformation and temperament. All the apprpropriate health tests should be done on both animals.

Breeders should not select for physical or mental characteristics that will not benefit the animal

Breeders should not breed for profit.

Feral and wild animals in England are controlled in various ways. Feral cats are often part of catch neuter release programs. Other species are killed to manage numbers.

Your point about humans is partially good one. I do believe that where public health is not an issue, families should limit their size. Residents in countries where disease is rife and there is no state support see children as a need to support them in their old age. I am sure that the women there don't want to go through childbirth multiple times and see their children die so as to be sure that they will have care in their old age. You can't simply propose contraception without also addressing the disease and the lack of care in old age.

Honestly its not rocket science, do you not know this stuff?

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