Friends DD threw my daughter to the ground

[AmIInside]

Friends daughter is 9 (same age as my DD). My DD is very into dancing and dances constantly. She dances in the house, around the living room, in her bedroom, in the garden, in the shops, in the street - constantly. She loves it.
Friends DD does karate and often practices that too.
Yesterday we were walking home from school and DD was dancing. Friends DD told her to “stop it” saying she was annoying and said “even my mum thinks you’re annoying, don’t you mum?”. Friend went bright red and said she’d never said that and her DD said “yes you did! You said “why can’t she just walk normal, remember?” Friend quickly changed the subject but was clearly embarrassed. I felt really awkward. Didn’t know what to say. DD said “I don’t care that I annoy you, if I want to dance I will do” and started to exaggerate her dancing a little and was swirling around us all. I told her to walk properly before she ends up crashing into someone. She swirled in front of friends DD who grabbed her and threw her to the floor. She landed awkwardly in a muddy puddle and really hurt her arm. She cried like mad 😢 friend told her DD off and told her to apologise, she refused saying DD started it and should just walk normal (echoing what her mum had obviously said). In anger DD shouted that friend was too ugly to be a dancer and that’s why she’s jealous. I told her off for that remark obviously but friends did retorted that DD was an attention seeking idiot and everyone thought so, even the teachers.

Anyway it got horrible and nasty. I can’t stop thinking about it.

Did she deserve to be thrown on the floor? I don’t think so. AIBU to message the mum and tell her how upset I am about the fact she’s clearly been slagging DD off at home?

@DietCokeChipsAndMayo no ones condoning it but they are saying “well your DD shouldn’t have been so annoying then she wouldn’t have been shoved/thrown ” and then saying the DD is awful and disgusting and the worst for the ugly remark. So it feels like justifying one kids shitty behavior as just someone one just lashing out when frustrated but when OPs DD retaliated to being attacked both physically and verbally (and with the friend trying to involve her mother in the insulting too) she’s the worst ever?
I’m not saying OPs DD was right to say the girl was ugly but we don’t know if that’s something she really believes or just something said in a moment of shock and anger and physical pain.

And yeah the kid was told off but she didn’t apologize for it so who knows if the telling off made any difference.

This sounds like a perfect teaching moment. Turn a negative into a positive. Everyone is old enough to have a mature discussion about what they did right and what they did wrong, adults and children. No one is perfect, we all make mistakes. It is important to learn from our mistakes and become better people. The two moms should discuss how they think this conversation should go and how the four of them can move forward. In twenty years time both girls might remember this event as formative in their conflict resolution skills and will be better friends, parents and partners. As parents we often think we only need to provide food shelter and love etc. Coping skills and resilience are equally important but less discussed and difficult to provide.

You shouldn't be letting your child just dance around all over. In the shops?! That's not appropriate.

Neither is lobbing her into a puddle of course but I can see how frustrating it must be to walk with someone dancing about all the time.

I’m going to go a little against the grain here. There were two adults here who are supposed to be responsible for guiding their children on appropriate play and behaviour so they can learn how to engage with their peers, who are responsible for demonstrating and showing children how to manage their emotions and who should have both put a stop to their respective children’s bad behaviour and taken responsibility in the situation to prevent it from escalating. The children are learning here, where was the adult guidance in all of this? There was huge scope for the children to learn something from this situation and now there is huge scope for the children to learn how to handle a conflict that has gone badly wrong. That is what I would be focussing on.

I mean @BoredZelda is the only one who gets it.

I don’t know if you’re all such oiks that violence is normal; but it’s not acceptable to throw people to the ground. Ever. 9 year old knows that.

It doesn’t really matter how annoying DD was being. Unless she physically attacked the other girl who was simply defending herself, there is no justification for the girl’s actions full stop.

Children squabble, don’t get involved.

I don't think your friend was doing anything wrong in quietly telling her DD that your DD should walk properly down the street, she's right.
I can guess how their private conversation went at home.

My own DC's little friends used to run riot in public places ( completely indulgent parents ) and I would quietly tell my DC this is not something she should be joining in.
They were much younger though, pre-school.

The squabble and comments made sound like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your friend saying your dd is annoying to her dd is a prime example of why you don't say stuff like that in front of your kids. We all do it, she just got caught and was embarrassed.

I agree with this, but also, sometimes those conversations go "yeah, I'm sure you find her behaviour annoying, but she isn't doing any harm" or "yeah, well some children like attention, but that doesn't mean she is a bad kid" That can easily be heard by a 9 year old as "mum said you were annoying". Which is one reason I wouldn't challenge the other mum about what she allegedly said.

Some of the comments here
Basically, OP. If you had reigned your DD in when it became obvious she was not only being annoying, but hazardous, it never would have escalated.

I don't think your DD sounds annoying at all. I think she sounds wonderful and I'd sooner be around a child who is happy and playful than a sullen child who drags their feet.

Yes, it is important that a 9 year old girl learns that she needs to be still and quiet or she deserves to be met with violence.

JFC do you all have precious annoying dancing kids too? the violence that she met with (that was wrong) was from ANOTHER GIRL who didn't want some whirling dervish in her face.

So what was actually going on? was twinkletoes skipping at her mum's side? or was she leaping and pirouetting and getting in the other girl's face? because that would be wrong, and as a 9 year old I'd have shoved her after telling her to stop, too. And I'd have got a telling off, but dancing girl wouldn't have done it to me a second time, would she?

Some of the replies here are hilarious in their outrage. Not ONE personhas said it's ok to push someone to the ground (karate or not). Pretty much everyone who is on the YABU side has said that pirouetting and prancing around and annoying people isn't ok. It is especially not ok to exaggerate it when someone tells you to stop.

The lesson here isn't the laughably pathetic "oh the message is that girls should be quiet" the message here is "don't dance in people's faces and respect their request that you don't annoy them"

If it was a boy who had been practicing his karate kicks and annoying a girl who then pushed him the answers would all have been about him respecting her request not to get in his face.

If it had been two boys it would probably be "well, boys, eh? you should expect fisticuffs"

There is a time and place for prancing around, and annoying people by continuing when they ask you to stop isn't acceptable. Nor is pushing someone over (was addressed) nor is calling someone ugly.

This is like the popular adult dilemma of AIBU when kids are on a scooter too close to me? I'm imagining that the OP's dd is twirling and annoying to the girl who just wants to walk

So you don't know how the other parent has dealt with the situation now you've parted ways. Do you want her to tell you everything she intends to do? Or do you trust that she will deal with the situation accordingly?

I would be so upset if either of these kids were mine. The purposefully being annoying and antagonising your friend is mean, pushing your friend over is very bad behaviour. Calling your friend ugly is very cruel and so is telling someone that no one likes them/everyone finds them annoying.

I think most people when they were kids had a friend who did that "Not touching, can't get mad" thing where they get in your personal space and refuse to get out of it without actually touching you. Understandably, younger people will less control of themselves will push out.

Sorry but I just don't believe that she used her top notch karate on your kid and flung her away with force, I think it was far more likely a shove.

I don't think you need to message the other girl's Mum as her own DD shamed her plenty enough when revealing her comments. It might just have been a case of the other girl complaining to her and your friend absentmindedly saying 'yes yes I know it's annoying'.

She shouldn't have pushed your DD to the ground but it might have been her way of saying 'fine, if you're going to practice your hobbies on the way home then I shall do the same'. Karate throws are often not painful it was probably just a shock.. or poorly executed.

Some distance is best now and a chat with your daughter about how that walk could have been improved. How each of their comments made each other feel.

OP My DD also does dancing although she’s a bit older than your DD but she’s been dancing & doing shows for quite some years now I understand they really do have to practice & like your DD mine would be in her element to dance anywhere & everywhere however as the parents it is our responsibility to make our children understand it’s fine for them to practice in their rooms, around the house & even in the garden but equally it’s not ok for them to practice/dance around in public places like shops/walking along for example if there’s a chance they will get under people’s feet, we have to set the boundaries/rules for them to follow 😌 that said I really hope your DD is ok & her arm gets better soon as previous posters have said violence is never the answer so your DD’s friend was wrong for that as much as your DD was wrong for annoying them, I think if I was you I’d probably let this friendship fizzle out in the best interests of all 4 of you 😌 x

@BoredZelda

The ugly remark was vile too. You should reign that sort of superior attitude in quickly.

but friends did retorted that DD was an attention seeking idiot and everyone thought so, even the teachers isn't just as vile?

The mother of that girl isn’t on the thread. If she was people would probably be saying to her “what she said was unpleasant and cruel, and she needs to know it’s unacceptable” or a version of that.

I mean BoredZelda is the only one who gets it.

Thanks @TatianaBis. I thought I was going mad, but do seem to have stepped into some alternative universe!

I'm wondering how many parents here would be entirely ok if their kid came home from school and said "I was annoying my friend today and they threw me to the ground and it really hurt, but my teacher said it's just kids being kids and we should sort it out amongst ourselves, and that I kind of deserved it for being annoying"

She sounds a little annoying. But there are far more annoying traits in kids than dancing. So long as she's not crashing into people or getting in their personal space.

But your friend is an adult and should not he slagging a kid off to her kid. And the kid should not be throwing other kids onto the floor.

@AmIInside

No apologies, it ended with them both saying how much they hate each other. Her DD told her that nobody likes her, not even the teachers.

Does your daughter have many/any other friends?

It's possible that classmates & teachers find the dancing annoying though.

Your daughter needs to know when to reign it in.

Sorry but I'd be irritated if someone was dancing around me whilst I was walking in the street. It's not right she pushed her to the ground but did she really push her to get her on the ground or push her out of her personal space and it just happened your daughter ended up on the ground. If someone kept getting in my personal space then I would push them out the way too

The mother of that girl isn’t on the thread. If she was people would probably be saying to her “what she said was unpleasant and cruel, and she needs to know it’s unacceptable” or a version of that.

The whole tone here is that it was tit for tat. Calling a child "vile" for responding in kind to an equally vile statement, is unnecessary.

Your daughter has the right to dance - and how wonderful that she does.

She shouldn’t have to treat what others find ‘annoying’ as a reference point.

Her friend assaulted her - now, that is a problem, as is the fact that her friend refuses to take responsibility for her actions.

9 is about the age when female children are bullied into being ‘good’ little girls, who conform to societal expectations. Behave, be a pleaser, put others’ needs and wants first.

In other words - stop dancing (literally and metaphorically).

Teachers and parents should not be referring to any child as ‘annoying’ - certainly not within earshot of other children. It’s bullying and deeply inappropriate.

Your daughter called her friend ‘ugly’, but it sounds like something a desperate child would say in response to having been hurt, physically and emotionally. And you did hold her accountable, so you are clearly teaching her respect for others.

I think too many people in this world ‘walk normal’ because they’re afraid to dance.

So, no - your daughter did not ‘deserve’ to be thrown to the floor. No one does. We live in a world that tolerates (and normalises) violence towards women, so it’s really important that she understands that she wasn’t at fault, and that what her friend did was wrong.

Texting her friend’s mother might be a good idea, just to clear the air. This could be done gently, and on the premise of the well-being of both girls.

You’re a great mum.

May your daughter dance forever.

In all honesty your kid sound really annoying. Karate friend shouldn't have pushed her, but maybe she had just had enough.

Your daughter saying she is ugly is utterly vile.

@HogDogKetchup

It’s not for anyone to police your DD, it’s certainly not for anyone else to physically assault your DD.

This.

All kids can be annoying at times, mine included. It doesn’t mean they deserve to be assaulted.

Your daughter sounds like a pain in the arse. Use this opportunity to explain that people won’t always tolerate her. I’m not surprised the other mum has been talking about her at home. So would I. She definitely shouldn’t be thrown to the ground of course- but the fact that she told her friend she was ugly shows that she is not very nice. And not very boundaried. If someone called my daughter ugly they would be pirouetted into the distance faster than they could cha cha cha.