Friends DD threw my daughter to the ground

[AmIInside]

Friends daughter is 9 (same age as my DD). My DD is very into dancing and dances constantly. She dances in the house, around the living room, in her bedroom, in the garden, in the shops, in the street - constantly. She loves it.
Friends DD does karate and often practices that too.
Yesterday we were walking home from school and DD was dancing. Friends DD told her to “stop it” saying she was annoying and said “even my mum thinks you’re annoying, don’t you mum?”. Friend went bright red and said she’d never said that and her DD said “yes you did! You said “why can’t she just walk normal, remember?” Friend quickly changed the subject but was clearly embarrassed. I felt really awkward. Didn’t know what to say. DD said “I don’t care that I annoy you, if I want to dance I will do” and started to exaggerate her dancing a little and was swirling around us all. I told her to walk properly before she ends up crashing into someone. She swirled in front of friends DD who grabbed her and threw her to the floor. She landed awkwardly in a muddy puddle and really hurt her arm. She cried like mad 😢 friend told her DD off and told her to apologise, she refused saying DD started it and should just walk normal (echoing what her mum had obviously said). In anger DD shouted that friend was too ugly to be a dancer and that’s why she’s jealous. I told her off for that remark obviously but friends did retorted that DD was an attention seeking idiot and everyone thought so, even the teachers.

Anyway it got horrible and nasty. I can’t stop thinking about it.

Did she deserve to be thrown on the floor? I don’t think so. AIBU to message the mum and tell her how upset I am about the fact she’s clearly been slagging DD off at home?

Pushing and shoving is one thing, what is being described here was a child, trained in a martial art, using a karate move to throw another to the ground.
It won't have been a karate move, it's a child grabbing another and shoving her.

Definitely best to back away from this "friendship". Both girls sound spoilt and immature. You might have a word with your DD as it sounds like her attention seeking dancing might alienate her from her peers. Your friend and her daughter obviously find your daughter intensely irritating and while violence is completely unacceptable I doubt you'll ever feel comfortable in their company again even if apologies are made.

I suspect this is either:

1. Reverse (surely anyone who is aware enough to say that her dd "started to exaggerate her dancing a little" is aware that her dd is annoying, and deliberately so, so unlikely to start the thread)

Or

1. The "throw" was more of a trip over the other girl because she was trying to dance too close to be annoying.

My dd used to do handstands on the school run and it drove me insane. I'm getting all irate again at the thought of it, so I can totally see your friend's point, sorry.

Having said that, there's no need for anyone to be thrown to the floor, however you said the other little girl does karate? She's only practising her hobby I guess, the same way your daughter's practising hers (that's very tongue in cheek by the way!)

[quote SalmonEile]@DietCokeChipsAndMayo no ones condoning it but they are saying “well your DD shouldn’t have been so annoying then she wouldn’t have been shoved/thrown ” and then saying the DD is awful and disgusting and the worst for the ugly remark. So it feels like justifying one kids shitty behavior as just someone one just lashing out when frustrated but when OPs DD retaliated to being attacked both physically and verbally (and with the friend trying to involve her mother in the insulting too) she’s the worst ever?
I’m not saying OPs DD was right to say the girl was ugly but we don’t know if that’s something she really believes or just something said in a moment of shock and anger and physical pain.

And yeah the kid was told off but she didn’t apologize for it so who knows if the telling off made any difference.[/quote]
I think generally on here, AIBU especially, in a situation like this where both parties are in the wrong, the comments tend to come down harder on the person posting. If the other mother had posted, I think more responses would have focused more on the unacceptableness of the violence (especially if it read like the mother was minimising it), and less on the ugly comment or the dancing.

was from ANOTHER GIRL who didn't want some whirling dervish in her face.

So girls should accept violence if it comes from another girl?

Not ONE personhas said it's ok to push someone to the ground (karate or not).

The karate part of it is actually important. It shows intent. Pushing a person which results in them falling over is partly accidental. The push can be to get them away and the fall was a result of over-pushing. Far more common for kids to do this and not something to be overly bothered about. Using a manoeuvre designed to throw a child to the floor means that is exactly what the child intended to happen. That is not ok.

You can't message the other Mum and tell her off for grumbling about your DD in the privacy of her own home - even though it might be hurtful for you, I'm afraid it does sound like a justifible opinion to hold...

Deliberately swirling in front of her when she knows she doesn’t like it and your mum has already told you to stop. On this occasion your DD ends up in puddle. It could easily have been other child in puddle hurt tripping over your DD. What punishment did you give DD for ignoring you?
The pushing child obviously shouldn’t have done it but she apologised as did her mother.

She's only practising her hobby I guess, the same way your daughter's practising hers (that's very tongue in cheek by the way!)

I get the tongue in cheek, but they are (or should be) taught this stuff doesn't happen outside the dojo.

Sometimes people are just too different to be friends. No need for nastyness but just don't make them spend time together because you are friends with her mum.

My DD would have found your DD annoying too, whereas someone else would have been able to tolerate it. It does sound as though your DD just wants all of the attention all the time, and your friends DD have just had it. It's probably been grating on her and her mum for a while and it just happen to culminate in that way.

I'm wondering how many parents here would be entirely ok if their kid came home from school and said "I was annoying my friend today and they threw me to the ground and it really hurt, but my teacher said it's just kids being kids and we should sort it out amongst ourselves, and that I kind of deserved it for being annoying

except that literally nobody has said that. Nobody.

For the dancing, for anyone that watches Brooklyn 99, I'm imagining that twirly, kicky, arm-flappy in your face stuff that Gina does. And if i, even at my great age, asked someone not to do that in my face and they did it again, i may grab their arm and firmly move them out of my space.

As for the shove: was it a real karate throw? was it a massive shove that was intended to hurt? was it a smaller shove and because the DD is dancing around she was off balance and fell over in a way she wouldn't if she was walking normally? So many questions.

And what, no kid is allowed to go home and say "blimey mum, Twinkletoes is annoying with all the dancing" and the mum to say "I'm sure she is" REALLY? haha not in the real world.

anyway, OP, hope DDs arm is ok.

It won't have been a karate move, it's a child grabbing another and shoving her.

And you know that because....?

@holidaynearlyover

Do not message the mum. Your daughter does sound annoying, tbh most children other than your own are annoying and she's allowed to say what she thinks at home.

Teach your daughter some manners. Your friend told her daughter off so that's the end of it

Yep this. Your kid was deliberately winding up her kid by swirling right in front of her. Tough.

And yes if someone was constantly dancing in front of me while I'm trying to walk to get somewhere on time, I'd feel like pushing them too! I wouldn't do it obviously as I'm an adult but they are 9.

Do NOT message the mum. You'll just end up falling out as you will both defend your kids.

@BoredZelda

It won't have been a karate move, it's a child grabbing another and shoving her.

And you know that because....?

We don't. But equally you have no idea that this is what happened either.

Using a manoeuvre designed to throw a child to the floor means that is exactly what the child intended to happen.

Not RTFT, obviously violence is unacceptable in any circumstances.

However, it does sound like they both behaved very badly, your daughter by continuing to dance around when she was clearly annoying others and the other girls rude response. I'd give the girl and the mother a wide berth for a while, but you also need to speak to your DD about controlling herself, the dancing may just be a bit of fun to you, but it sounds massively irritating for others.

@BoredZelda

It won't have been a karate move, it's a child grabbing another and shoving her.

And you know that because....?

Her age and the fact she's doing karate not judo.

Tbh it’s not clear from OPs description, (and I think that’s deliberate) whether her Dd swirling in front of her friend means she was swirling a metre in front of her or swirling right up in her face and causing her to change her path or even coming into contact with her. If it was either of the latter two then I can totally see how the friend would grab her and pull her out of the way without any karate moves involved.

YABU because this sounds made up.

Also agreeing here with BoredZelda I’m really taken aback at so many PP’s condoning violence as a response. The shock of being thrown to the ground. By a so called friend. I would not remain friends with that mother or daughter either. And I would say something to that mother.

Your daughter should not have been thrown into a puddle. Violence is never an answer.

However this is time your daughter learns an valuable lessons. Dancing is not for in the shops, in the street, in school etc. You and she may think it is cute or she is practicing and it is harmless. You told her stop but she didn't you need to stop this behavior now. At nine she is old enough to know better. She sounds quite self absorbed and selfish.

There is an excellent dance school in the town I live and I often see some of the students in supermarkets etc. I assure you they are walking not dancing.

Sorry but I just don't believe that she used her top notch karate on your kid and flung her away with force, I think it was far more likely a shove.

If the other person is dancing it wouldn't take much for the dancer to lose balance and fall.

So, it's okay for your DD to constantly dance everywhere, even in places where it's not appropriate behaviour and it's annoying people. And when her 'friend' asks her to stop it because it's annoying her, the it's okay for your DD to say she doesn't care and rub the other child's face in it by continuing in a more exaggerated/annoying fashion? So, all of that's okay with you?

But the other child demonstrating her hobby - which she possibly loves just as much as your daughter loves dancing - and getting your child away from her is massively not okay? No adult is going to say it's okay for the 'friend' to throw your girl into a puddle, but she sounds really annoying - not just with the constant dancing, but with the entitled and superior attitude.

The comment about her 'friend' being to ugly to be a dancer is simply a very ugly thing to say, and reflects badly on your girl and her attitude. Where has she picked up such nasty ideas OP?

Back right off from the friendship-that-isn't-a-friendship and keep hold of a bit of self-respect by not messaging the other mother. People in glass houses, and all that.

So girls should accept violence if it comes from another girl?

there is some severe hard of thinking on this thread. I didn't say that. But the outrage about "girls should know their place" is misplaced when it's not boys telling them that. Can't you tell the difference?
it's one annoying little fucker pushing another annoying little fucker. Frankly? i would have stopped my daughter annoying the other kid, but there you go. Some people indulge these idiotic behaviours, some don't.

So again for the back of the room: it is not ok to use violence. It is not ok to continue to annoy someone when they have asked you to stop. 9 year olds have to learn to control themselves and adults should be teaching them. Sounds like at least one of the involved mums was doing that. the other? not so much.

But again: it is not ok to use violence and hopefully that lesson has been learned. Certainly a karate teacher would take a dim view of it outside of a training session or competition

Both children annoyed each other

The dancer child handled it better by continuing to dance

And the other child lost her temper

But the key word here is they are children I'm sure both children are annoying now and then and both children have lost their tempers

As for the mother likely saying the dancer child is a annoying she probably did ... oh well other people's children are annoying

@BoredZelda

It won't have been a karate move, it's a child grabbing another and shoving her.

And you know that because....?

Because karate is about self defence. You also don't grab someone's arm and throw them to the floor in any form of karate. Other martial arts, sure, but not karate.