Friends DD threw my daughter to the ground

[AmIInside]

Friends daughter is 9 (same age as my DD). My DD is very into dancing and dances constantly. She dances in the house, around the living room, in her bedroom, in the garden, in the shops, in the street - constantly. She loves it.
Friends DD does karate and often practices that too.
Yesterday we were walking home from school and DD was dancing. Friends DD told her to “stop it” saying she was annoying and said “even my mum thinks you’re annoying, don’t you mum?”. Friend went bright red and said she’d never said that and her DD said “yes you did! You said “why can’t she just walk normal, remember?” Friend quickly changed the subject but was clearly embarrassed. I felt really awkward. Didn’t know what to say. DD said “I don’t care that I annoy you, if I want to dance I will do” and started to exaggerate her dancing a little and was swirling around us all. I told her to walk properly before she ends up crashing into someone. She swirled in front of friends DD who grabbed her and threw her to the floor. She landed awkwardly in a muddy puddle and really hurt her arm. She cried like mad 😢 friend told her DD off and told her to apologise, she refused saying DD started it and should just walk normal (echoing what her mum had obviously said). In anger DD shouted that friend was too ugly to be a dancer and that’s why she’s jealous. I told her off for that remark obviously but friends did retorted that DD was an attention seeking idiot and everyone thought so, even the teachers.

Anyway it got horrible and nasty. I can’t stop thinking about it.

Did she deserve to be thrown on the floor? I don’t think so. AIBU to message the mum and tell her how upset I am about the fact she’s clearly been slagging DD off at home?

@ShinyHappyPoster

It's the posters defending someone dancing in your personal space who are reinforcing passivity and female stereotypes. We can't teach girls to have boundaries and then say 'oh but if it's your mum's friend's DD then it's perfectly fine for them to invade your personal space' . No, it isn't. It's not acceptable whether it's an adult or a child. It's not acceptable whether they're doing it under the pretext of dancing or anything else.

Totally, stop means stop and everyone needs to respect that when their behaviour is affecting someone else.

Where have I said violent friend doesn't need to learn? She does, however so far she has done it once as far as we know, so we must hope she has learned from it, whereas dancing DD has obviously done it a lot and doesn't seem to be learning that it isn't always appropriate.

@RachelHasThoseInBurgundy

The karate kid, however, is excused, because she was reacting against a girl who was being annoying ie acting unconventionally, & wilfully refusing to control her own body movements.

Unconventionally? really? A 9 year old girl dancing (or skipping or hopping or twirling) is perfectly normal- there really is nothing unconventional about it. Annoying is the accurate description.

No, "annoying" is your description.

I'd find it entertaining, & as soon as I didn't, I'd ask/encourage/motivate & finally TELL the dancer to stop.

OP didn't bother, the "friend" didn't intervene either, so two 9 year olds kicked off, with predictable results.

@ChargingBuck it certainly isn’t unconventional though. Which is what you tried to claim.

@girlsmom21

Right. Throwing someone down in the street is not violent. Ok.

This is all wild speculation on your part, but it can be used as a teaching point: the reason violence is never acceptable is because it can always have more serious consequences than intended. You catch someone off balance, they fall back and hit their head on the pavement etc.

It’s mind-boggling that this needs to be explained to an adult.

It's the posters defending someone dancing in your personal space who are reinforcing passivity and female stereotypes.
We can't teach girls to have boundaries and then say 'oh but if it's your mum's friend's DD then it's perfectly fine for them to invade your personal space' . No, it isn't. It's not acceptable whether it's an adult or a child. It's not acceptable whether they're doing it under the pretext of dancing or anything else.

You make a good point @ShinyHappyPoster

Although it's not clear how much of the other girl's space DD was invading, it's IS clear that the "friend" does fuck-all to defend her own child's boundary, other than bitch about the DD to her own kid, behind the others' backs.
Which is very far from a great role model for female assertiveness.

@TatianaBis I'm almost certain she didn't throw her down. As I said earlier, it would've done some damage if she had.

If someone was prancing around you and getting in your face after you'd repeatedly asked them to stop, what would you do?

Would you just stand still until they'd decided to stop?

I'm confused by some posters. Are you saying that the only thing that should have been commented on or punished was the push?

By pushing, dancing kid was cleared of any wrong doing because it wasn't as wrong as karate kids action?

Clearly violence is not acceptable, but both children did do somethings wrong.

@RachelHasThoseInBurgundy

*Truth! PP said it upthread, something like "stay still like the rest of us". It's female conditioning.*

So when I asked my son to stay still, like the rest of us, which was me and two or 3 other boys, what sort of conditioning was that?

Exactly. It's getting her to behave appropriately in the circumstances - ie. walking home. Not a place for twirly dancing around people. She is easily old enough to understand this but looks like the OP hasn't addressed this yet and indulges her behaviour that annoys everyone else.

It isn't female conditioning - I see mothers telling their sons about appropriate behaviour in different situations all the time too. Funny that.

[quote RachelHasThoseInBurgundy]@ChargingBuck it certainly isn’t unconventional though. Which is what you tried to claim.[/quote]
I'm not "trying to claim it" Rachel. I'm stating it as an opinion.

You know PP are able to co-exist while holding divergent opinions, right?

@ChargingBuck

But @TatianaBis - this is mumsnet.

Where girls must conduct themselves in an orderly & conventional fashion, & be responsible for everyone's feelings ahead of their own.

It's only sensible - unless natural exuberance is repressed, it leads to girls growing into women who don't wash their towels after every use, or who allow visitors to use the upstairs bog.

The karate kid, however, is excused, because she was reacting against a girl who was being annoying ie acting unconventionally, & wilfully refusing to control her own body movements.

Truth! PP said it upthread, something like "stay still like the rest of us".
It's female conditioning.

Weird, fucked up, but true.

Interestingly, staying still doesn’t seem to apply to not attacking people.

I'm not "trying to claim it" Rachel. I'm stating it as an opinion.

You know PP are able to co-exist while holding divergent opinions, right?

But it’s not, in any way, unconventional for a 9 year old girl to be dancing around. you can’t really believe it is?

@ChargingBuck exactly,
I feel like the friend had the confidence to tell DD how annoying she was when she thought her mother would back her up and join in like she does at home.
Then got angrier when not only did her mother lie her way out of it but the OP DD upped the ante and danced even more. Not the outcome she expected

(I need to get off this thread and go do some work I’ve never been so invested in a thread before )

Op if you’re reading I hope your DDs arm is ok

The strength of feeling on this thread (imo) comes from a lot of us remembering the dancer girls at school who would:

• walk around with their scraped back hair in a ponytail, swinging like crazy into the faces of the lesser girls
• make us sit through assemblies as they talked about their endless competitions and expect us all to revere their shitty plastic trophy
• take the lead always in the school play and stand on stage with a fake smile and stage makeup on
• be teachers pet
• hurl insults about the looks of other girls for fun
• have verbal diarrhoea about their fantastic dancing

Etc etc. Most of us knew this sort of girl. And this sort of girl is bloody annoying.

@LolaButt

The strength of feeling on this thread (imo) comes from a lot of us remembering the dancer girls at school who would:

• walk around with their scraped back hair in a ponytail, swinging like crazy into the faces of the lesser girls
• make us sit through assemblies as they talked about their endless competitions and expect us all to revere their shitty plastic trophy
• take the lead always in the school play and stand on stage with a fake smile and stage makeup on
• be teachers pet
• hurl insults about the looks of other girls for fun
• have verbal diarrhoea about their fantastic dancing

Etc etc. Most of us knew this sort of girl. And this sort of girl is bloody annoying.

They always did cartwheels too. Always with the fucking cartwheels!

The friend shouldn’t have pushed your daughter, the friend shouldn’t have repeated what her mum said, your daughter should have stopped twirling around when you asked, your daughter shouldn’t have called her friend ugly.

But it does sound like your daughter is an attention seeking diva, dancing in shops, school, walking home, from school and so on. Surely you can see how annoying it would be to others.

Maybe cool the friendship for a bit and walk home by yourselves.

[quote TatianaBis]@girlsmom21

Right. Throwing someone down in the street is not violent. Ok.

This is all wild speculation on your part, but it can be used as a teaching point: the reason violence is never acceptable is because it can always have more serious consequences than intended. You catch someone off balance, they fall back and hit their head on the pavement etc.

It’s mind-boggling that this needs to be explained to an adult.[/quote]
I don’t disagree with this. At the same time, a child calling another child ‘too ugly to be a dancer’ could trigger lifelong mental health issues, eating disorder and eventually lead to death. Neither outcome is likely, but both are possible. Violence of any sort is wrong. It also isn’t the only wrong thing in the world.

Break the friendship. The Mum lacks control of her mouth and her DD thinks violence is ok.

Why would you post about situation on AIBU? You know violence is mostly minimised/condoned/accepted on here because 'yeah but she was being annoying so she deserved to be hit'.

Im sorry your DD was upset, hope her injured arm is ok albeit you really could and should have dealt with situation on the spot.

[quote girlmom21]@TatianaBis I'm almost certain she didn't throw her down. As I said earlier, it would've done some damage if she had.

If someone was prancing around you and getting in your face after you'd repeatedly asked them to stop, what would you do?

Would you just stand still until they'd decided to stop? [/quote]
You’re ‘almost certain’ that the girl didn’t throw her down, despite the fact you were not there and and have never met these people; despite the fact OP states:

friends DD [who] grabbed her and threw her to the floor

I would move away. I certainly wouldn’t attack someone for dancing around. HTH.

Feck me, some on this thread need to wash their belly buttons more often, the navel gazing bollocks here is embarrassing

Conditioning females my arse. It has feck all to do with gender & everything to do with knowing how to behave appropriately in given situations so as not to invade others spaces or create a risk of accident to others. At 9, it's the DMs responsibility to teach that.

If the dancing Queen was a boy, getting up in his friends face when asked not to do something p, you'd likely be shouting that he deserved a smack for not respecting a females boundaries... give your bloody heads a wobble 🙄

@AmIInside

Friends daughter is 9 (same age as my DD). My DD is very into dancing and dances constantly. She dances in the house, around the living room, in her bedroom, in the garden, in the shops, in the street - constantly. She loves it. Friends DD does karate and often practices that too. Yesterday we were walking home from school and DD was dancing. Friends DD told her to “stop it” saying she was annoying and said “even my mum thinks you’re annoying, don’t you mum?”. Friend went bright red and said she’d never said that and her DD said “yes you did! You said “why can’t she just walk normal, remember?” Friend quickly changed the subject but was clearly embarrassed. I felt really awkward. Didn’t know what to say. DD said “I don’t care that I annoy you, if I want to dance I will do” and started to exaggerate her dancing a little and was swirling around us all. I told her to walk properly before she ends up crashing into someone. She swirled in front of friends DD who grabbed her and threw her to the floor. She landed awkwardly in a muddy puddle and really hurt her arm. She cried like mad 😢 friend told her DD off and told her to apologise, she refused saying DD started it and should just walk normal (echoing what her mum had obviously said). In anger DD shouted that friend was too ugly to be a dancer and that’s why she’s jealous. I told her off for that remark obviously but friends did retorted that DD was an attention seeking idiot and everyone thought so, even the teachers.

Anyway it got horrible and nasty. I can’t stop thinking about it.

Did she deserve to be thrown on the floor? I don’t think so. AIBU to message the mum and tell her how upset I am about the fact she’s clearly been slagging DD off at home?

Contact the karate teacher / school and make a formal complaint about what she did (name and address). She will be kicked out in no time as they have a strict code of conduct.

@TatianaBis OP's version of events aren't really reliable when she's clearly very dramatic.

You're still not getting the bit where throwing someone to the floor is going to do them a bit of damage. They wouldn't just stand up and call you ugly.

The girl couldn't move away because the OP's daughter wouldn't let her. HTH

"I'm not exaggerating, the girl upped her ante and swirled in front of the other girl deliberately to further annoy her. OP is saying 'throw' because it sounds better than 'pushed her out of the way'."

We're already getting a subjective account of events. 'Swirled in front of' is what OP said. You turned that into 'gyrating wildly', a description reminiscent of Tom Jones performing Sex Bomb or something equally embarrassing.

I agree that OP is likely playing her DDs part in this down, but you don't need to make up for it by counter-exaggerating.

@LolaButt

The strength of feeling on this thread (imo) comes from a lot of us remembering the dancer girls at school who would:

• walk around with their scraped back hair in a ponytail, swinging like crazy into the faces of the lesser girls
• make us sit through assemblies as they talked about their endless competitions and expect us all to revere their shitty plastic trophy
• take the lead always in the school play and stand on stage with a fake smile and stage makeup on
• be teachers pet
• hurl insults about the looks of other girls for fun
• have verbal diarrhoea about their fantastic dancing

Etc etc. Most of us knew this sort of girl. And this sort of girl is bloody annoying.

Contact the karate teacher / school and make a formal complaint about what she did (name and address). She will be kicked out in no time as they have a strict code of conduct.

Possibly a bit much.