Friends DD threw my daughter to the ground

[AmIInside]

Friends daughter is 9 (same age as my DD). My DD is very into dancing and dances constantly. She dances in the house, around the living room, in her bedroom, in the garden, in the shops, in the street - constantly. She loves it.
Friends DD does karate and often practices that too.
Yesterday we were walking home from school and DD was dancing. Friends DD told her to “stop it” saying she was annoying and said “even my mum thinks you’re annoying, don’t you mum?”. Friend went bright red and said she’d never said that and her DD said “yes you did! You said “why can’t she just walk normal, remember?” Friend quickly changed the subject but was clearly embarrassed. I felt really awkward. Didn’t know what to say. DD said “I don’t care that I annoy you, if I want to dance I will do” and started to exaggerate her dancing a little and was swirling around us all. I told her to walk properly before she ends up crashing into someone. She swirled in front of friends DD who grabbed her and threw her to the floor. She landed awkwardly in a muddy puddle and really hurt her arm. She cried like mad 😢 friend told her DD off and told her to apologise, she refused saying DD started it and should just walk normal (echoing what her mum had obviously said). In anger DD shouted that friend was too ugly to be a dancer and that’s why she’s jealous. I told her off for that remark obviously but friends did retorted that DD was an attention seeking idiot and everyone thought so, even the teachers.

Anyway it got horrible and nasty. I can’t stop thinking about it.

Did she deserve to be thrown on the floor? I don’t think so. AIBU to message the mum and tell her how upset I am about the fact she’s clearly been slagging DD off at home?

I can see your DD is annoying if she dances everywhere, perhaps it’s time at 9 she does walk home properly

That said if it’s obvious, and it is, that your friend has made horrible comments to her daughter then that’s not on

Personally i would cool the relationship with both of them, and not walk home with them anymore

Total over reaction saying your friend slagging off dd at home. She probably just said its annoying the way she dances about and you do nothing. And you were the one telling her to walk normal so she friends dd wasn't repeating her mum

So what your daughter loves dancing, she doesn't have to dance about like an annoying idiot - she deliberately provoked her friend by dancing in front of her and telling her she was going to AND after you had already told her to stop. You should have stpped in here and stopped your dd.

Friends red mist came down and down your dd went - they are 9 and far from perfect. Then your dd went for the jugular and called her ugly.

Your dd sounds like a pretentious brat who needs a good talking to.

Truth! PP said it upthread, something like "stay still like the rest of us".
It's female conditioning.

So when I asked my son to stay still, like the rest of us, which was me and two or 3 other boys, what sort of conditioning was that?

@ChequerBoard

This is your imagination running off:

"given the wild gyrations of Girl1 it's hardly surprising that she fell down as a result"

Now, from OP's own description of events and the comments to her from her friend, it does sound like her DD was being a bit irritating. But "wild gyrations"? Where on Earth did you get that from?

It's the posters defending someone dancing in your personal space who are reinforcing passivity and female stereotypes.
We can't teach girls to have boundaries and then say 'oh but if it's your mum's friend's DD then it's perfectly fine for them to invade your personal space' . No, it isn't. It's not acceptable whether it's an adult or a child. It's not acceptable whether they're doing it under the pretext of dancing or anything else.

she shouldn’t have pushed BUT’ that is saying it’s acceptable.

It really isn’t.
It’s saying she was pushed because of your daughters antagonising behaviour. Explaining the reasoning behind something does not condone it.

Truth! PP said it upthread, something like "stay still like the rest of us".
It's female conditioning

What rubbish. I have 2 boys and they wouldn't be allowed to fanny about like that.

"what is being described here was a child, trained in a martial art"

No karate doesn't teach throws / shoves. If it was a karate move, the likelihood is that both DDs would have been on the floor. Karate is very controlled, there's no wild pushing each other to the ground and letting the other person fall. It sounds like the shove of an annoyed child, hardly a martial arts takedown.

Both DDs are in the wrong. Yours was being annoying / ignoring being told to stop / insulting her friend by calling her ugly. The other DC shouldn't have pushed your DD at all, or told her everyone thinks she's annoying. It's very much 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other.

However, your DD should have listened to you when you told her to stop dancing around. You can only discipline your DD. As you've mentioned the other parent told her DD off too. Take some time to cool off and perhaps spend some time apart?

She shouldn't have pushed her over.

But, your daughter will probably forget the sore arm within a month or so, the other little girl will probably remember being called ugly for a long time.

[quote GaryLurcher19]@ChequerBoard

This is your imagination running off:

"given the wild gyrations of Girl1 it's hardly surprising that she fell down as a result"

Now, from OP's own description of events and the comments to her from her friend, it does sound like her DD was being a bit irritating. But "wild gyrations"? Where on Earth did you get that from?[/quote]
OP said "DD said “I don’t care that I annoy you, if I want to dance I will do” and started to exaggerate her dancing a little and was swirling around us all. I told her to walk properly before she ends up crashing into someone. She swirled in front of friends DD who grabbed her and threw her to the floor. "

I'm not exaggerating, the girl upped her ante and swirled in front of the other girl deliberately to further annoy her. OP is saying 'throw' because it sounds better than 'pushed her out of the way'.

Oh that's OK then, she had enough of her so throwing her to the ground and hurting her is fine. Does the same go for men who get annoyed with their wife? It's OK he''d just had enough so punched her in the face.

You're being silly, you can't compare 9yos pushing each other to domestic abuse and punching.

If my husband was getting in my face doing something I didn't like and wasn't respecting my personal boundaries and carried on after I'd asked him to stop absolutely I'd push him away from me.

It depends on proximity really, if kid is dancing far away from the other kid yes it's annoying but running over and pushing them would be very wrong. If dancing kid is twirling infront of someone liked the OP said it sounds like she was invading the other girl's personal space and boundaries....and carried on even more so after being asked to stop. I can understand someone pushing someone away in such a situation. It's not like she pummelled her to the floor. Probably the other kid should have tried to walk away but it sounded like dancing kid was twirling infront of her on purpose and would quite probably have followed. Bet she won't do it again. And yes calling the other girl ugly was very nasty and speaks volumes about how she views people. I'd be having a serious conversation.

Karate girl tried to sort it verbally- she literally said stop it. Dancing girl should have stopped or danced away from karate girl. Instead mum allowed dancing girl to "escalate"

Karate's girl's choices would be to walk further ahead or behind or ask her mum to intervene because OP didn't .

You should have told your DD off the second she started dancing more & in front of her friend who had just asked her not to. She doesn't deserve the violence, but you are at fault for not acting to prevent your DD winding her friend up more. You also need to step up & teach your DD where dancing & practising is appropriate, walking down the street dancing at 9 isn't appropriate if you don't what others to get annoyed by her or for her to cause an accident to someone walking by who might be invisibly disabled & have slower reaction times.

Don't ring the DM, no it's not nice she's encouraging her DD to bitch about her friend by joining in, but it sounds like the other girl has had enough of your DDs show off shit. Leave it, find new friends, but learn from this situation so it doesn't happen again. Your DD is 9, not 3

[quote theKingismyFather]@TrufflesAndToast

‘BUT It’s not like she walked up to a child and just randomly attacked her’

So it’s okay to attack someone if they are annoying you? Or it’s less of an issue? Seriously?

My DH could walk out into the street and attack someone or attack me. Both would be assault and a criminal offence. Just because I am annoying (which I truly can be) doesn’t give my DH the right to attack me.[/quote]
I honestly give up. A small number of posters on this thread are either angling for an argument or are genuinely thick.

You take one quote out of context and completely misinterpret it. I have repeatedly stated that the violence was wrong. I am also saying that the OP’s DD was being annoying and highly inappropriate. Notwithstanding that the other child was clearly in the wrong, I don’t believe that the fact that the girl got pushed completely cancels out her own awful behaviour. It doesn’t justify that she was physically hurt but it is also part of the whole story and something that needs addressing.

Nowhere have I said that the push was justified or deserved or anything else that you seem determined to believe. I have just said that the fact that she was pushed doesn’t make her some kind of completely innocent angel in the situation, it doesn’t cancel out her own awful behaviour. That is very different to saying it was in any way justified or deserved. I hope that’s clear enough for you.

Talking about assaults and criminal offences is ridiculous and totally irrelevant to the actual scenario being discussed here which is two nine year olds, both being poorly patented in different ways, lashing out at each other in different ways.

I’m quite thrown by how many people are fixated on the push and unable to get past that while completely ignoring the fact that the OP’s Dd repeatedly breached another child’s physical boundaries and personal space and said she was too ugly to be a dancer. Truly awful behaviour which is in its own way just as worrying as pushing another child over. Words can do as much or far more damage than pushing and both are assaults of their own kind.

Mistakes are made by 9 year old. Children make mistakes and an adult explains why it is the wrong thing to do, gives any appropriate punishment, and also explains what is a better way of dealing with the situation. That is how they learn what is and isn't acceptable.

In this case both girls are at fault, neither have apologised but both of them need to be aware that their reactions were wrong.

However dancing DD has to be aware that there is a time and a place for everything. And whilst being annoying may not warrant violence it doesn't mean you are free to annoy people to your hearts content either.

Truth! PP said it upthread, something like "stay still like the rest of us".
It's female conditioning.

Nope- boys need to learn this too. I was very grateful to the mum teaching her sons at the supermarket this lesson yesterday.

@NigelSlatersXmasTaters

"I'm pretty shocked by the responses here.

If I were you I'd totally support your little one! If she wants to dance let her dance! She might go pro one day!"

Jesus wept. The entitlement. She might go pro so let her behave however she likes wherever she likes? No.

My kid might go pro golfer but he's not dragging his clubs through Asda shouting "fore" and practicing his swing down the tinned veg aisle.

Brilliant! 👏

My kid might go pro golfer but he's not dragging his clubs through Asda shouting "fore" and practicing his swing down the tinned veg aisle.

He’d better not hit my kid practicing the long jump in the next aisle.

@sweeneytoddsrazor

And violent friend doesn’t need to learn there’s no time and a place for assault? Why would you focus on a lesson on dancing about, over something that could get the girl kicked out of her martial arts and excluded from school?

My kids once wrestled in the aisles of Tesco. Perhaps a career with WWE awaits ?

@ShinyHappyPoster

It's the posters defending someone dancing in your personal space who are reinforcing passivity and female stereotypes. We can't teach girls to have boundaries and then say 'oh but if it's your mum's friend's DD then it's perfectly fine for them to invade your personal space' . No, it isn't. It's not acceptable whether it's an adult or a child. It's not acceptable whether they're doing it under the pretext of dancing or anything else.

Hear hear.

The irony is astonishing.

@BoredZelda we only have OP's word it was a martial arts style throw. I highly suspect it wasn't a planned attack using all her 9 year old highly developed skills 🥴 but much more likely to be a shove in the heat of the moment as Dancer DD gets in her face (again, after being ineffectually asked to stop). And DD fell over because she was pirouetting or some such.

[quote TatianaBis]@sweeneytoddsrazor

And violent friend doesn’t need to learn there’s no time and a place for assault? Why would you focus on a lesson on dancing about, over something that could get the girl kicked out of her martial arts and excluded from school?[/quote]
Oh get a grip. She's not violent. She probably grabbed the girls arm to drag her out the way. She was prancing about so would've been off balance.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility for that to be the reason she ended up in a puddle.

@BananaPB

My kids once wrestled in the aisles of Tesco. Perhaps a career with WWE awaits ?

Only if they’re girls. If they’re boys they’re criminals. Obviously.

Hope your dd is alright. However annoying her dancing was the she could have been really hurt and the other girl was out of order