Friends DD threw my daughter to the ground

[AmIInside]

Friends daughter is 9 (same age as my DD). My DD is very into dancing and dances constantly. She dances in the house, around the living room, in her bedroom, in the garden, in the shops, in the street - constantly. She loves it.
Friends DD does karate and often practices that too.
Yesterday we were walking home from school and DD was dancing. Friends DD told her to “stop it” saying she was annoying and said “even my mum thinks you’re annoying, don’t you mum?”. Friend went bright red and said she’d never said that and her DD said “yes you did! You said “why can’t she just walk normal, remember?” Friend quickly changed the subject but was clearly embarrassed. I felt really awkward. Didn’t know what to say. DD said “I don’t care that I annoy you, if I want to dance I will do” and started to exaggerate her dancing a little and was swirling around us all. I told her to walk properly before she ends up crashing into someone. She swirled in front of friends DD who grabbed her and threw her to the floor. She landed awkwardly in a muddy puddle and really hurt her arm. She cried like mad 😢 friend told her DD off and told her to apologise, she refused saying DD started it and should just walk normal (echoing what her mum had obviously said). In anger DD shouted that friend was too ugly to be a dancer and that’s why she’s jealous. I told her off for that remark obviously but friends did retorted that DD was an attention seeking idiot and everyone thought so, even the teachers.

Anyway it got horrible and nasty. I can’t stop thinking about it.

Did she deserve to be thrown on the floor? I don’t think so. AIBU to message the mum and tell her how upset I am about the fact she’s clearly been slagging DD off at home?

[quote theKingismyFather]@TrufflesAndToast

‘BUT It’s not like she walked up to a child and just randomly attacked her’

So it’s okay to attack someone if they are annoying you? Or it’s less of an issue? Seriously?

My DH could walk out into the street and attack someone or attack me. Both would be assault and a criminal offence. Just because I am annoying (which I truly can be) doesn’t give my DH the right to attack me.[/quote]
Yes, I think it is a bit less of an issue (absolutely not a non-issue though) for a child to react violently to being annoyed, than to randomly attack someone. Comparisons to adults aren’t very useful.

If the story was “I was walking with DD and this child we don’t even know just came up and shoved her to the ground” then yes I’d think that was worse.

To the child who has been shoved it makes little difference, I’m talking about the reaction to the violent child.

[quote SalmonEile]**@ChequerBoard* @RachelHasThoseInBurgundy* but the OP DD only started trying to deliberately annoy the other girl (or prove that she wouldn’t been stopped by their opinions) after the Friend told her how annoying she was and tried to get her mother to back her up and prove the mother found her annoying too. Before that we can assume the DD was just doing what she always does and dances.
Now maybe the friend has been telling the DD politely for weeks and has had enough we don’t know[/quote]
I’m not sure what point you’re making?

No @MichelleScarn
The ugly comment came after KarateD pushed her and refused to apologize

No one on here is a child, all fully grown adults and yet are saying violence is acceptable as the DD was being annoying?

Not a single person has said it’s acceptable.

@WindWash

There are throws in karate so that’s a bit disingenuous How many 9 year olds are learning them? And the ones that are able to replicate them out in the wild while someone is dancing around them? Highly unlikely. Shoving her was wrong, she shouldn't of touched her, but making out she did some epic martial arts throw rather than a childish shove is ridiculous.

I didn’t. I was replying to the pp who said there were no throws in karate. There are.

I’d be surprised if she had got the idea to throw another girl down without having down martial arts though.

Amazed at how many PP's want to control the natural expression of a 9 year old's body. I suppose you'd prefer girls to be marching in orderly lines, taking orders from others to restrict their movements, & being obedient, seemly, & meek.

No, we want her to behave appropriately in certain situations. She wants to dance around her house and garden etc. then that's fine. She wants to dance in the street or in shops - not fine. It's so annoying when I'm trying to move heavy stock around and there's a kid dancing/using Heelys/playing chase and completely oblivious to anything else around them.

If the friend's DD was annoyed by the dancing, she & her mum could have stopped walking alongside OP. No need to tell DD to stop annoying the other child, just remove the other child from the annoyance, surely? They were outdoors, all they needed to do was cross the road or hang back for a minute.

How many 9 year olds do you know that would be emotionally mature enough for this to be their first reaction to being annoyed by someone dancing around them? Rather than their first instinctual reaction to be vocalising that they are annoyed?

Yet another thread where grown adults talk trash about young children, posters saying things like 'they both sound vile' or 'your child sounds so annoying' Really?
They are both 9 years old. Give it a rest.

The other girl shouldn't have resorted to pushing her, obviously physical violence is wrong. The name calling and remarks from your dd and your friends dd are outbursts from children said in the heat of the moment. It's up to you as parents to speak to your children about that and help regulate/understand their emotions. I wouldn't discourage your daughter to 'not dance everywhere' she obviously loves it and it makes her happy, I would just remind her to be be more mindful of other people and not get in their personal space.

Your mate is obviously entitled to her opinion about your dd, but should not have said things in front of her dd. Children pick up so much from their parents/caregivers.

OP could have had her dd dance away from her friend when she initially said stop it or when the dancing escalated. That way both girls were old have what they want - dancing and space

Oh, I completely agree @BananaPB

OP & her "friend" were complete wet blankets, & allowed this to escalate while her DD was bossed about then thrown, & the other kid ended up receiving a really nasty insult.

One of the adults could easily have stopped this storm in a teacup before it even got poured.

Girls should be accorded the same freedoms, assuming they're not bashing toddlers and zimmer-frame users off the pavement as they pass.

Op literally told dd to stop before she crashed into someone.

I would assume if you felt your son might be causing chaos or bumping into people you would say stop and expect him to listen. I would hope he would listen and not exaggerate what he was doing in someone’s face purely to provoke them.

Yes, your daughter sounds like she irritates them and it's clear they talk about that and you were never supposed to know.

So she is irritating when she dances around. 🤷‍♀️ The solution to that for them is to not walk with you any more.

She did not deserve to be assaulted

It’s very interesting that 90% of posts focus on the ‘inappropriate’ behaviour of DD, not the inappropriate behaviour of the friend.

To take one example:

Your daughter is an annoying liability who appears to have no discipline or self-awareness.

If there is anyone this description fits it’s the friend. A child prone to violence is a completely liability, if it is not taken in hand pdq there could be serious consequences.

She needs to learn that throwing people around outside a martial arts class is completely unacceptable and dangerous. And that training involves discipline and self control. If she doesn’t, she will simply be thrown out of the class.

@RachelHasThoseInBurgundy

If the friend's DD was annoyed by the dancing, she & her mum could have stopped walking alongside OP. No need to tell DD to stop annoying the other child, just remove the other child from the annoyance, surely? They were outdoors, all they needed to do was cross the road or hang back for a minute.

How many 9 year olds do you know that would be emotionally mature enough for this to be their first reaction to being annoyed by someone dancing around them? Rather than their first instinctual reaction to be vocalising that they are annoyed?

@RachelHasThoseInBurgundy

What's it got to do with the 9 year olds?
Re-read the bit you yourself highlighted - the mothers should have either stopped the annoyance, or created more space.

OP seemed to just allow it all to happen, & now wants to rant-by-text to her "friend". It's all a bit ridiculous.

This. My nine-year-old DS typically comes from home school leaping onto walls, running, dancing around, doing basic parkour moves etc. It's mildly maddening if I'm trying to have a conversation with him, but as long as it's not bothering anyone else, it's hardly the crime of the century. If we're with some of his friends and no one brought their Pokemon cards, it can look like the the Sharks (or is it the Jets) at the beginning of West Side Story.

My son was identical at 9. (At 12 he has thankfully stopped! ) and I certainly did tell him to stop when we were walking around or near to people. It was very annoying and there are times where it’s fine and times where it isn’t. It’s fine to tell a 9 year old this.

Some of the reactions on here are totally ridiculous. This is two 9 year olds, still learning acceptable behaviour. Child 1 is by her mothers own admission constantly dancing, child 2 has found this annoying. Child 2 has expressed this annoyance, it is obviously not the first time child 2 has been annoyed by it as she has obviously spoken to her Mum about it. On this particular occasion she asked child 1 to stop and instead of doing so child 1 has deliberately exaggerated the dancing in front of child 2 at which point child 2 pushes child 1 over. Not the best reaction but parent reprimanded her child 2 knows not to do it again. Child 1 responds with unkind words and should equally be reprimanded. End of story move along.

What's it got to do with the 9 year olds?
Re-read the bit you yourself highlighted - the mothers should have either stopped the annoyance, or created more space.

Because how would the mother know her child was annoyed by the dancing without her DD saying so?

what is being described here was a child, trained in a martial art, using a karate move to throw another to the ground.

You do realise that Karate doesn't include throws? Judo or Jujitsu for that. So basically, she pushed her over. No martial arts training required.

@sweeneytoddsrazor but the friends DD refused to apologize when told off and said it was the OPs DD own fault for not walking properly
Also the OP said she did tell her daughter off for the ugly remark

Both kids were told off but no apologies or resolution

@sweeneytoddsrazor

‘Unkind words’ should be ‘equally’ reprimanded as violence. Really?

In the real world world dancing and unkind words are not illegal. Physical assault is.

^OP could have had her dd dance away from her friend when she initially said stop it or when the dancing escalated. That way both girls were old have what they want - dancing and space.
The other girl is not unreasonable to want space or for the girl to talk to her on the journey home rather than dance. (It's not easy to talk to someone while they dance)^

Given the horrid comment from the girl had clearly came from her mother to start with I’m not convinced she wanted to speak to @AmIInside‘s daughter, she clearly isn’t very fond of her.
I don’t condone the ugly comment but by this point the child had been insulted and physically harmed. We all have a breaking point where you think enough and bite back.

@Clementineapples

No one on here is a child, all fully grown adults and yet are saying violence is acceptable as the DD was being annoying?

Not a single person has said it’s acceptable.

They have though. By saying ‘she shouldn’t have pushed BUT’ that is saying it’s acceptable.

@TatianaBis

It’s very interesting that 90% of posts focus on the ‘inappropriate’ behaviour of DD, not the inappropriate behaviour of the friend.

To take one example:

Your daughter is an annoying liability who appears to have no discipline or self-awareness.

If there is anyone this description fits it’s the friend. A child prone to violence is a completely liability, if it is not taken in hand pdq there could be serious consequences.

She needs to learn that throwing people around outside a martial arts class is completely unacceptable and dangerous. And that training involves discipline and self control. If she doesn’t, she will simply be thrown out of the class.

But @TatianaBis - this is mumsnet.

Where girls must conduct themselves in an orderly & conventional fashion, & be responsible for everyone's feelings ahead of their own.

It's only sensible - unless natural exuberance is repressed, it leads to girls growing into women who don't wash their towels after every use, or who allow visitors to use the upstairs bog.

The karate kid, however, is excused, because she was reacting against a girl who was being annoying ie acting unconventionally, & wilfully refusing to control her own body movements.

Truth! PP said it upthread, something like "stay still like the rest of us".
It's female conditioning.

@sweeneytoddsrazor

Some of the reactions on here are totally ridiculous. This is two 9 year olds, still learning acceptable behaviour. Child 1 is by her mothers own admission constantly dancing, child 2 has found this annoying. Child 2 has expressed this annoyance, it is obviously not the first time child 2 has been annoyed by it as she has obviously spoken to her Mum about it. On this particular occasion she asked child 1 to stop and instead of doing so child 1 has deliberately exaggerated the dancing in front of child 2 at which point child 2 pushes child 1 over. Not the best reaction but parent reprimanded her child 2 knows not to do it again. Child 1 responds with unkind words and should equally be reprimanded. End of story move along.

By 9 they should know to keep their hands to themselves. According to the OP she didn't ask her to stop, she told her to stop and she told her that an adult (her mother) said she was annoying. I think dancing more was what most people would do in those circumstances.

The karate kid, however, is excused, because she was reacting against a girl who was being annoying ie acting unconventionally, & wilfully refusing to control her own body movements.

Unconventionally? really? A 9 year old girl dancing (or skipping or hopping or twirling) is perfectly normal- there really is nothing unconventional about it. Annoying is the accurate description.

No-one likes a show off. No-one.

Do you like show-offs OP?