To argue that this should is not a suitable topic for the Girl Guides

[MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled]

Girlguiding is for girls, aged 10-14. So why then do they feel the need to promote this on their social media?

This week is #AceWeek - a time to raise awareness and understanding of the asexual community. So here’s a shout-out to all of our asexual volunteers and members – thank you for everything you do in Girlguiding.

The reference to ‘members’ is quite clear. What on earth were they thinking in making reference to young girls’ sex lives (or lack of them according to the focus of the Tweet). How, as an organisation, have they strayed so far? I have two boys in the Scouts/Beavers and if this came up on either of their social media pages I would pull them out. Why is it seen to be an acceptable for Girlguiding?!!

• ultimately, not intimately

[quote Newbabynewhouse]@Slashlover

No i wouldn't say ahh so you like dick?

Because just because theu have a boyfriend doesnt mean they are straight or gay .. they might like anyone... they might like people for their personality? Not caring about what body part they have...[/quote]
But you said discussing sexuality means talking about willies or vagina. So surely you must ask people about willies and vaginas?

[quote Newbabynewhouse]@Slashlover

But i thought people were "born who they are... and its not a choice" thats what we get told isnt it..?[/quote]
Yes, but (for example) there have been women who have posted here who considered themselves 100% heterosexual but then questioned if they where actually bi or gay.

Should we then say "No, you said you were heterosexual and aren't allowed to change it now."?

Honestly the obsession and dog with bone insistence on talking about ‘but ace people have sex without feeling sexual attraction’ is both being massively overstated and misinterpreted.

I think people seem to think that having sex without feeling sexual attraction somehow means having sex with anyone and everyone, because if you don’t feel sexual attraction you have no discernment over who you sleep with, it’ll just be anyone, right?
But no, wrong, people who know they are ace will be having sex usually for a specific reason: to make a baby, because they are in a romantic relationship and they want to make their partner happy, it’s thought about and deliberate in most cases rather than promiscuous, throw caution to the wind sex with a stranger (Not that I see an issue with that if that’s what you want to do).
Ironically, the thing posters are worried about (ie girls having sex with anyone because they don’t feel attracted to anyone, so out themselves in dangerous situations) happens a lot to teenage girls who aren’t aware they ace. Who feel broken and have random sex to try and fix themselves, looking for the thing that’ll make you feel what everyone else feels.

Some of the answers on here...I'm asexual myself and I read it that it's just being inclusive and that's it,especially if children are taught sex ed at age 9.
I get the argument to protect children as long as possible from the overtly sexualised society we live in, but protecting them for too long also isn't a good thing.
Asexuals are hardly a threat to the future of the planet when it's 2% of the population but some of these replies it feels like it!
When I was at school it was the 90s so sex ed was very one sided and we were taught the biology only due to it still being illegal to teach about homosexuality in schools so for children who are reaching puberty now surely it's a good thing to inform them that if they are asexual it's ok and normal rather than make them feel there's something wrong with them especially as we do live in an over sexualised society. There's so little understanding out there for people who are asexual as it is and I've heard all the things people say in order to dismiss what is a valid orientation.

I was a Brownie then a Guide.. my mother was a Brown Owl.
During my childhood and later years, I never knew or heard of any friend or colleague questioning their sexuality. Not even a murmur or whisper among our wider circles. We were who we were born, boy or girl, not given a list of options, you can be this or that or do you feel blah blah?
I still have no-one in family, friends or ex colleagues who identify(ied) as anything other than the gender/ sex they were born and neither do my children. Mind you, we don't subscribe to the woke posse.

@LoisLane66

I was a Brownie then a Guide.. my mother was a Brown Owl. During my childhood and later years, I never knew or heard of any friend or colleague questioning their sexuality. Not even a murmur or whisper among our wider circles. We were who we were born, boy or girl, not given a list of options, you can be this or that or do you feel blah blah? I still have no-one in family, friends or ex colleagues who identify(ied) as anything other than the gender/ sex they were born and neither do my children. Mind you, we don't subscribe to the woke posse.

I think you're mixing up sexuality and gender.

What does you not knowing any gay/ase/bi people in your personal life have to do with people who are gay/ase/bi?

@TheOriginalEmu

Honestly the obsession and dog with bone insistence on talking about ‘but ace people have sex without feeling sexual attraction’ is both being massively overstated and misinterpreted.

I think people seem to think that having sex without feeling sexual attraction somehow means having sex with anyone and everyone, because if you don’t feel sexual attraction you have no discernment over who you sleep with, it’ll just be anyone, right?
But no, wrong, people who know they are ace will be having sex usually for a specific reason: to make a baby, because they are in a romantic relationship and they want to make their partner happy, it’s thought about and deliberate in most cases rather than promiscuous, throw caution to the wind sex with a stranger (Not that I see an issue with that if that’s what you want to do).
Ironically, the thing posters are worried about (ie girls having sex with anyone because they don’t feel attracted to anyone, so out themselves in dangerous situations) happens a lot to teenage girls who aren’t aware they ace. Who feel broken and have random sex to try and fix themselves, looking for the thing that’ll make you feel what everyone else feels.

So now go and explain this to a 12 year old in a way they’d understand.

@LoisLane66

I was a Brownie then a Guide.. my mother was a Brown Owl. During my childhood and later years, I never knew or heard of any friend or colleague questioning their sexuality. Not even a murmur or whisper among our wider circles. We were who we were born, boy or girl, not given a list of options, you can be this or that or do you feel blah blah? I still have no-one in family, friends or ex colleagues who identify(ied) as anything other than the gender/ sex they were born and neither do my children. Mind you, we don't subscribe to the woke posse.

I’ve never met anyone from Sudan. Or anyone with bilateral amputations.

Must not exist then.

So now go and explain this to a 12 year old in a way they’d understand.

Some people like boys, some like girls, some like both and some like neither. Do you explain the how you decide who to have sex with to them? No? The there's no need to tell them that some ase people have sex.

@slashlover

So now go and explain this to a 12 year old in a way they’d understand.

Some people like boys, some like girls, some like both and some like neither. Do you explain the how you decide who to have sex with to them? No? The there's no need to tell them that some ase people have sex.

But many prepubertal children will think that means them. And it won’t. So then you need to clarify it. If a prepubertal child then says, “I don’t like anyone, I must be asexual then” what’s your follow up?

But many prepubertal children will think that means them. And it won’t. So then you need to clarify it. If a prepubertal child then says, “I don’t like anyone, I must be asexual then” what’s your follow up?

"That's fine too"

It's utterly normal for DC to go through phases (word chosen because some endure, others don't) The best message is always 'that's ok'

"That's fine too"

Why is a normal phase of childhood development - not being attracted to anyone - being labelled as a sexuality that kids can state as a fact about themselves without question?

In exactly the same way that homosexuality may be settled or not.

It's okay

@NotBadConsidering

"That's fine too"

Why is a normal phase of childhood development - not being attracted to anyone - being labelled as a sexuality that kids can state as a fact about themselves without question?

I think a lot of people and a lot of people on this thread see children as small adults so when you say let kids be kids, let them be innocent they put their adult self in that child's position and see you as denying them something that is central to their identity.

My concern is also as I've read this thread there are so many definitions of asexuality how is a volunteer leader, sometimes not much older than their charges, to explain this to children (who often see things as black or white)? Many of whom will not have considered any of this yet?

@MoggyP

In exactly the same way that homosexuality may be settled or not.

It's okay

But a prepubertal child who says they don’t like anyone could also be homosexual. Or heterosexual. Or bisexual. So why is a normal phase of childhood development of not being liking anyone (“some like neither”) being taken as a sign at all of any burgeoning sexuality, settled or not? It’s meaningless isn’t it? It just means they’re a child, it doesn’t mean they may or may not have a particular sexuality.

So again, how is asexuality to be explained properly to children if they ask?

Did we ever work out if asexuals can feel sexual attraction or not?

That is such a good point TheWeeDonkey. I once had a discussion with a poster about SexEd in primary school. This was for PSHE so I was happy with the context but I was concerned about age appropriate messages.

This specific poster was pushing for the inclusion of the use of sex toys and the cleaning of those in primary school PSHE. They could not see how inappropriate this was for 10 year olds. It transpired that they had been an oversexualised child and that they had used sex toys in that age.

This poster was so keen to help children like they had been that they just didn’t grasp how inappropriate even introducing sex toys to primary school children was.

Obviously I am not equalising these different issues (tweet and sex toys). But there are parallels.

One is a possibility suitable topic (asexuality) in an inappropriate setting (GG). The other is an inappropriate topic (sex toys for 10 year olds) in an appropriate setting (PSHE).

Children need to have appropriate topics when it comes to anything to do with sex. And these need to be communicated in an appropriate setting, PSHE.

Did we ever work out if asexuals can feel sexual attraction or not?

The more the people on the thread explain the more confusing it gets.

We’ve established that asexuals can be attached/attracted to their partners, feel sexual desire (get “horny” as someone described it), be in a serious relationship, enjoy sex and have children.

The flag seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting for whatever else distinguishes it from other sexualities

I think a lot of you are overestimating what children are actually taught about at age ten in their sex.education lessons.
In year six(age 11) a child will be taught:
About homosexual and heterosexual, single parent and adopted family units through relationships curriculum. They will not be overtly told these are sex based relationships. The focus is on any family being a nurturing environment (and this focus on nurturing is a safeguarding tool to identify children not in a nurturing environment to help them realise)
They are told about conception in a very minimal way. The emphasis is on eggs and sperm journey and not the 'act'. Variations of sexual acts are not included.
They are told about normal body changes and the broad timeline to expect them.
There's a reason it is as it is, child development experts have put the curriculum in place so it is manageable for most non Sen children to cope with (Sen are differentiated for) the amount of knowledge a child has is a key safeguarding tool. If a child child knows vocabulary that is far beyond their age staff know to investigate. Sometimes it comes to something. Sometimes it doesn't.

The point is, if girl guides insist on pushing vocabulary at the group, some of that language becomes widespread in a yeargroup it normally appears in as a precocious interest in sex. It removes a safeguarding tool.
If girl guides think this language belongs in yeargroups they guide, they need to lobby for change. Otherwise they need to butt out as their introduction of this language into the shared vocabulary of Guiding is effecting how safeguarding elsewhere happens.
They need to put their own house in order and make it clear that they are now a mixed sex organisation before they start thinking they are leaders in safeguarding though.

The only bit I truly understood is that an asexual never fancies a celebrity or male stripper groups from the 90s. That was clear as crystal.

And that inability to join in about discussions about fancying/non fancying was problematic.

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

Taken over by pervs and nonces in my opinion - won’t let my girl go there now.

I’m wondering if you are being deliberately provocative, given your username: wasn’t the film about a married man having sex with two schoolgirls?

@nolongersurprised

Did we ever work out if asexuals can feel sexual attraction or not?

The more the people on the thread explain the more confusing it gets.

We’ve established that asexuals can be attached/attracted to their partners, feel sexual desire (get “horny” as someone described it), be in a serious relationship, enjoy sex and have children.

The flag seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting for whatever else distinguishes it from other sexualities

It's all very Humpty Dumpty isn't it?

"When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

Do not underestimate the level of safeguarding training that is now expected of all adult members of Girlguiding because of all sorts of issues that can be brought up by girls in a ‘girls only’ space.