To argue that this should is not a suitable topic for the Girl Guides

[MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled]

Girlguiding is for girls, aged 10-14. So why then do they feel the need to promote this on their social media?

This week is #AceWeek - a time to raise awareness and understanding of the asexual community. So here’s a shout-out to all of our asexual volunteers and members – thank you for everything you do in Girlguiding.

The reference to ‘members’ is quite clear. What on earth were they thinking in making reference to young girls’ sex lives (or lack of them according to the focus of the Tweet). How, as an organisation, have they strayed so far? I have two boys in the Scouts/Beavers and if this came up on either of their social media pages I would pull them out. Why is it seen to be an acceptable for Girlguiding?!!

I don’t think people realize how big of a deal gender and identity is now to young people

I work with at least 8 trans young people it’s not my job to tell them what to identify as but to support them and their family with whatever they need supporting with
We use preferred names - so Samuel might now be Crystal -

Some young people identify as ALL SORTS of things. Fairies, elves etc

Go on TikTok and do a deep dive.

It’s difficult because it’s hard not to just say ‘are you doing this because it’s trendy’. Or worry that it’s an expression of trauma or neurodiversity (there is a high number of ASD individuals in the trans community)

But genuinely the existence of asexuality is last years news.

Have a nosey at this: all available on TikTok for primary ages kids to devour !!

This tweet is really small fry.

I’d argue that any safe setting that is happy to discuss these scenarios in a safe and hopefully informed environment is better for any child than a potentially toxic peer or family setting. I don’t think it’s inappropriate, we are existing in a ‘woke’ community with way more terminology than I can keep up with and I fear as open as I am to my children being who they want to be 1) my prejudices learnt from childhood might send the wrong message to them but also 2) my children as much as I’d prefer them to talk to me would feel comfortable talking about their feelings and experiences in setting of peers and strangers all with a common viewpoint or consideration of a similar viewpoint.

No one is saying that guide leaders are predators.
What is being said is:
Signposting on a website generally encourages the conversation into the unit
Leaders are not equipped /wanting to navigate those conversations
Understanding of this particular preference requires a maturity the average ten year old lacks
The age range they deal with is to broad and therefore content has to be more tightly managed
There's not the accountability or record keeping that is required for schools
Adults shouldn't discuss their sex life with children
It creates an uncertainty around sex that predators could exploit(and predators look for these conditions)
It ignores the various cultural and social difference guides bring. Hence making it less inclusive of you don't subscribe to the gender umbrella religion.

@MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled there was an article about this tweet in The Times yesterday because many others share your concerns.

Yes ‘Lockheart’ maybe they need to know about different sexuality etc. But at home from their parents surely??? And At 10-12 your hormones are all over the place so how can you know at that age what sexuality you are? My grandchild aged 6 and 10 understand about different sexualities as their Aunt (my eldest daughter is gay) but surely anything like that should be taught at home, where they feel comfortable asking questions so things don’t get confusing.

@Blueeyedgirl21

I don’t think people realize how big of a deal gender and identity is now to young people

I work with at least 8 trans young people it’s not my job to tell them what to identify as but to support them and their family with whatever they need supporting with
We use preferred names - so Samuel might now be Crystal -

Some young people identify as ALL SORTS of things. Fairies, elves etc

Go on TikTok and do a deep dive.

It’s difficult because it’s hard not to just say ‘are you doing this because it’s trendy’. Or worry that it’s an expression of trauma or neurodiversity (there is a high number of ASD individuals in the trans community)

But genuinely the existence of asexuality is last years news.

Have a nosey at this: all available on TikTok for primary ages kids to devour !!

This tweet is really small fry.

I think you’ll find schools affirming trans kids is exactly why the d of e updated their pshe guidance.

The Tavistock official guidance on how the NHS should proceed is ‘watchful waiting’ and advise against socially transitioning kids.

So if Tavistock say this and d of e had to update guidance to stop schools promoting an ideology as fact what makes you think you know better?

I wouldn't expect a 10 year old to know they were asexual but Girlguiding members are aged from 5 up to about 100 if you include Trefoil Guild, so there could quite feasibly be adult or older teen members that it would have more relevance to. I doubt it is a topic that comes up with younger members unless they ask in reference to an older family member or friend.

@Laurap82

I’d argue that any safe setting that is happy to discuss these scenarios in a safe and hopefully informed environment is better for any child than a potentially toxic peer or family setting. I don’t think it’s inappropriate, we are existing in a ‘woke’ community with way more terminology than I can keep up with and I fear as open as I am to my children being who they want to be 1) my prejudices learnt from childhood might send the wrong message to them but also 2) my children as much as I’d prefer them to talk to me would feel comfortable talking about their feelings and experiences in setting of peers and strangers all with a common viewpoint or consideration of a similar viewpoint.

Department of Education disagree with you. They say that parents should be children’s main source of sex and relationships education and that only very highly trained teachers should be delivering this supplementary rse at schools in highly planned lessons.

But hey, what do the d of e know.

@Bignanny30

Yes ‘Lockheart’ maybe they need to know about different sexuality etc. But at home from their parents surely??? And At 10-12 your hormones are all over the place so how can you know at that age what sexuality you are? My grandchild aged 6 and 10 understand about different sexualities as their Aunt (my eldest daughter is gay) but surely anything like that should be taught at home, where they feel comfortable asking questions so things don’t get confusing.

Historically finding out about homosexuality from their parents has gone really well for the gay kids who were kicked out, put into conversion therapy or told they were going to hell.

If a 12 year old said she liked boys would you tell her to wait as she might end up liking girls eventually?

@BelleOfTheProvince

No one is saying that guide leaders are predators. What is being said is: Signposting on a website generally encourages the conversation into the unit Leaders are not equipped /wanting to navigate those conversations Understanding of this particular preference requires a maturity the average ten year old lacks The age range they deal with is to broad and therefore content has to be more tightly managed There's not the accountability or record keeping that is required for schools Adults shouldn't discuss their sex life with children It creates an uncertainty around sex that predators could exploit(and predators look for these conditions) It ignores the various cultural and social difference guides bring. Hence making it less inclusive of you don't subscribe to the gender umbrella religion.

This is so patient and polite! But completely right.

@DockOTheBay

Again, many assumptions and huge leaps in logic from "one girl asked what asexuality is and was given an age appropriate definition" to "all guide leaders are grooming kids by telling them you can have sex without consent". Please do show me the logical, non hyperbolic steps from one to the other.

Go ask d of e & ofsted to explain it to you then.

I'll take that as an "I can't answer that so I'll sign post you to unrelated but important sounding organisations."

Ofsted would laugh at you for asking if guide leaders are all paedophiles because of one quote by the organisation stating that asexuality exists. Thanks for the clarity.

Ahh because that’s exactly what I claimed they were right?

I don’t consider this inappropriate. My children didn’t go to guides, they did Cubs and scouts (because Cubs and scouts happily allow all genders and at least at that time guides did not) for a bit and my eldest is now in cadets. It’s a simple social media post raising awareness for asexuality. My youngest is 9 and knows that any sexuality is totally ok as long as everyone is consenting and happy.

I would’ve said it’s a bit much for a ten year old ( I never had or knew anyone that carried on guides after primary school) but a grew up “normal” and knowing I fancied boys ( edit now : cis white female hetero ) so I suppose I’ll never know what it was like to NOT be? And think i was weird?
*I just hate the labels - just let everyone out there boxes, then we won’t have any of this crap

Maybe an opt in/out session for parents like they do ( or used to do) at school with sex-Ed?
I just went to Guides to play games and use a shit tonne of glitter

FFS !! JUST STOP !!!!!!

4-14 yr olds
Do NOT need to be discussing the minutiae of the sexual experience... be it homo, hetro, bi, omnio, or asexually .

They JUST DONT NEED IT IN THEIR LIVES ... they have the next 70 years to have that conversation.

Let them just be them. Whatever that is.

Maybe an opt in/out session for parents like they do ( or used to do) at school with sex-Ed?
Well yes, because actually schools have to carefully manage any sex ed including parents having the right to withdraw.

It's actually really insulting to educational professionals that some of the posters think that a 17 year old volunteer is equally able to deliver sex education as those trained for it.
As said previously, schools carefully control this for a number of reasons. This is encouraging the topic being explored in an informal session with no prior planning, record taking or misconception monitoring.

And no, I can't place absolute trust in an organisation that has made several basic safeguarding errors recently.

Department of Education disagree with you. They say that parents should be children’s main source of sex and relationships education and that only very highly trained teachers should be delivering this supplementary rse at schools in highly planned lessons.

But hey, what do the d of e know.

I had better report the 4 secondary schools I've worked in then, because none of the teachers delivering SRE in science and tutor sessions were given any special training to do so, besides the usual PGCE and one yearly safeguarding training.

Will never EVER send my daughters to a place where the safeguarding guide has been torn up and thrown out the window.
You cannot call something girl guides when it is no longer a single sex organisation.

It's an interesting point you make about secondary teachers.
I have found that generally, primary is absolutely watertight on safeguarding and secondary not so much. Very rarely do I meet a secondary colleague that has the awareness of even our lowest paid support staff.
I can only talk from my own experience but all my colleagues are very good and well informed on safeguarding.

Why is this a problem? Why do some people here say its "revolting"?

Knowing your sexuality is not just about having sex. It's about discovering who you are. I was around 10 or 11 when I realised I was different (later I discovered I am demisexual - I'm only sexually attracted to people who I first develop a strong emotional connection with). No person or organisation that I was involved in at the time ever discussed, celebrated, or even acknowledged the LGBTQIA+ community. It was a confusing time for me and I actually was ashamed of and confused about my sexuality until my early twenties.

Kids can start having "crushes" and sexual urges when puberty hits. As a demisexual, I never had this. I never understood why I didn't have crushes on celebrities or friend's older siblings, like all of my friends seemed to. Demisexuality is sometimes considered to be on the asexual spectrum, so something like this in my girl guide group would have been very helpful for me.

I wish someone would have mentioned to me at age 10-14 that there isn't only three sexualities (gay / straight / bisexual).

I don't see what the problem is.

I know my experience of the Girl Guides is getting on for 40yrs ago but back then my Guides Company covered 10-18yr olds.

@NopetyNopeNope

Why is this a problem? Why do some people here say its "revolting"?

Knowing your sexuality is not just about having sex. It's about discovering who you are. I was around 10 or 11 when I realised I was different (later I discovered I am demisexual - I'm only sexually attracted to people who I first develop a strong emotional connection with). No person or organisation that I was involved in at the time ever discussed, celebrated, or even acknowledged the LGBTQIA+ community. It was a confusing time for me and I actually was ashamed of and confused about my sexuality until my early twenties.

Kids can start having "crushes" and sexual urges when puberty hits. As a demisexual, I never had this. I never understood why I didn't have crushes on celebrities or friend's older siblings, like all of my friends seemed to. Demisexuality is sometimes considered to be on the asexual spectrum, so something like this in my girl guide group would have been very helpful for me.

I wish someone would have mentioned to me at age 10-14 that there isn't only three sexualities (gay / straight / bisexual).

I don't see what the problem is.

This absolutely!

I really wouldn't take Mumsnet too seriously on issues like this. Almost by definition it is a dominated by a group of people with tediously heteronormative sexualities!

And you can believe in whatever you want to believe. But the girl guides should not be about teaching children about contested beliefs.

I really wouldn't take Mumsnet too seriously on issues like this. Almost by definition it is a dominated by a group of people with tediously heteronormative sexualities!

This is so condescending. I would have felt the same if the Tweet had thanked all of their heterosexual members. Discussion of sexual orientation has no place Scouting in my opinion.