to blame Tony Blair for the lack of skilled workforce?

[dunkaccino]

In the 1980's only 15% of school leavers went into higher education leaving a good lot of people to become tradesmen/HGV drivers/butchers etc. Tony Blair decided in 1999 that 50% going to University was a great aim, which was finally achieved in 2019.

Now we have a lack of everyone useful - electricians, carpenters, fitters, engineers, butchers, drivers - coupled with a multitude of unskilled mickey mouse degree graduates who are of no practical use to anyone.

Covid & brexit have undeniably both played a part, but AIBU to think that Blairs idea was basically a bit shit and has left us lacking in the skilled workforce needed to run the country?

@jgw1 it’s a ton of money to burn just to learn stuff

[quote Rivermonsters]@jgw1 it’s a ton of money to burn just to learn stuff[/quote]
So everything has to be about money.
What a sad world we live in.

I love how people judge anything out of their own frame of reference as Mickey Mouse. Usually things that weren't around "when we were kids" or something people don't know anything about.

We can go back into history and blame all kinds of people for all kinds of things. He's a war criminal too. But then, I'm in Angela Rayner's camp on the scum front too.

Whose children do you think shouldn't go to university?

Did you go to university?

10 to 1 you would have been shunted off to office work (until married) in ye olde days.

And 10 to 1 so would your children.

But I suspect you think it's other people & other people's children that should have the privilege of no university.

10 to 1 you would have been shunted off to office work (until married) in ye olde days.

You mean like the majority of today’s graduates.

Fucking hell, don’t hurt yourself reaching will you

I agree op, and by doing so he devalued degrees! Now every tom, dick and harry has one!

University is about so much more though, it's also a stepping stone between dependence and independence, it's a chance to move away and make friends and figure out your place in the world. It's a chance to learn research skills, rather than be part of an exam factory which is all our school system is. It's an extension of youth, a chance of freedom and expression and many 18 year olds are not ready for the workplace so they may as well do a so called 'mickey mouse' degree first.

@icelolly12

University is about so much more though, it's also a stepping stone between dependence and independence, it's a chance to move away and make friends and figure out your place in the world. It's a chance to learn research skills, rather than be part of an exam factory which is all our school system is. It's an extension of youth, a chance of freedom and expression and many 18 year olds are not ready for the workplace so they may as well do a so called 'mickey mouse' degree first.

Perhaps vocational subjects could offer the same experience then? Maybe it would appear to some that wouldn't consider these careers otherwise.

@UsedUpUsername So you don’t want any English, geography, history, MfL etc teachers?

Imagine a world where Science and Maths was valued over everything else?🤮

No literature, drama, art, history, languages, music, no colour, no fun stuff.

Just paid for maths and science. What a depressing dystopia,

Maybe thats what the old polys are offering, but they're labelled mickey mouse degrees.

A guy I play rugby with has a ‘mickey mouse’ degree, he employs over 100 people, his company specialises in managing the social media presence of large corporations.

He owns a detached house in Islington, so his ‘mickey mouse’ degree is serving him well.

Yes a lot of 'mickey mouse' degrees offer a years in industry and a good career path. I know a lot of mickey mouse degrees who had a clear vision for their career, whereas Sociology/Geography/Philopsophy/English grads ... not so much. Mickey mouse degrees are the vocational degrees.

I work in manufacturing (fine jewellery) and I've never seen so many vacancies in all areas as there are at the moment.

Most people who do the practical side of it came through apprenticeships.
Its a skilled job and I trained for 5 years to do it, have worked for 20 years but my salary is less than the UK average.

Would i recommend it to my kids? Not necessarily, but I would definitely get them to consider all options after finishing school, and not just university because that's the obvious route.

I think there should be more practical courses and apprenticeships (and yes I would be ok with one of my own kids doing that if they chose to, and it suited their skill-set) and also shorter university courses. Different subjects vary enormously- a friends daughter was doing biology and I think she had nearly 40 hours a week in the lab, but other subjects seem to have far fewer teaching hours and could potentially be completed in 2 rather than 3 years. Obviously things like medicine and law can't be short cut but I wonder if some subjects could...?

The thing with being a service industry rather than manufacturing is that you do need a certain amount of manufacturing experience. We get asked to repair or adjust jewellery that was imported from the far east, because the client doesn't want the time or expense of sending it back overseas to be fixed. To be able to work on it requires the skill of someone who understands how it was made in the first place (even if they didn't make it themselves)

Sandwich courses are the best. I absolutely agree. A year in a related industry is immensely helpful when finding employment.

Machines/tech/IT means that millions of manual jobs have disappeared and millions more are on the way out.

University and higher education plays a valuable role in the economy and keeping a few million OUT of an already over prescribed work force for 3-5 years. The 5 day 40 hour work week is totally unsustainable for a while host of reasons.

The bottom line is education is run for the benefit of educators in much the same way the police are run for the benefit of the police and the health service is run for the benefit if its administrators and train companies are run for the benefit of their bosses

This is true (not so much in relation to the police, though, as they need to be properly funded)

@Simonjt

A guy I play rugby with has a ‘mickey mouse’ degree, he employs over 100 people, his company specialises in managing the social media presence of large corporations.

He owns a detached house in Islington, so his ‘mickey mouse’ degree is serving him well.

Ok but he probably could have done all that without his degree as well

Bit of a reach!

Why does learning have to have anything to do with getting a job?

But most students expect to get a job, that's the problem

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Imagine a world where Science and Maths was valued over everything else?🤮

No literature, drama, art, history, languages, music, no colour, no fun stuff.

Just paid for maths and science. What a depressing dystopia,

You literally don’t need university for any of this.

Trades pay better than some professions. (my friend is a senior nurse and her plumber husband makes more money than she does)

We need to make trade apprenticeships more of an attractive offer for non-academic students.

Ok but he probably could have done all that without his degree as well

He probably couldn't. To work in that kind of job you need a graduate degree. You may or may not agree with needing one, but most places will ask for one.

It would be utterly wonderful if Tony Blair had studied maths. Some of the education, education, education mantra was okay for the time it lasted. But he appears to have based his concentration on university education on the fact, among others, that university graduates earn more.

They did in his day which was nigh full employment for the percentage that went to uni in his time. But increase the percentage of graduates on the market and what would that tell you? To me it says the salaries will go down and competition be greater. On top of which IMHO the people who did well in his time were lawyers, bankers and those who did STEM and IT.

Interesting that one of Blair's sons has spotted the problem and making millions from cutting out unis and introducing post GCSE and A level students straight into paid traineships. Plenty of companies have done the same.