to blame Tony Blair for the lack of skilled workforce?

[dunkaccino]

In the 1980's only 15% of school leavers went into higher education leaving a good lot of people to become tradesmen/HGV drivers/butchers etc. Tony Blair decided in 1999 that 50% going to University was a great aim, which was finally achieved in 2019.

Now we have a lack of everyone useful - electricians, carpenters, fitters, engineers, butchers, drivers - coupled with a multitude of unskilled mickey mouse degree graduates who are of no practical use to anyone.

Covid & brexit have undeniably both played a part, but AIBU to think that Blairs idea was basically a bit shit and has left us lacking in the skilled workforce needed to run the country?

Yep because Brirain is a far nicer place now than it was under Blair and Brown -- NOT, I honestly think some women on here must be in the pay of the Torys or married into serious money, or genuinely only see their own small world. Labour brought in some brilliant things,surestart,connexions for teens, and had uni fees that were in the real world. People were encouraged to be self employed,tax credits were decent for people on work but not highly paid. And with regards to Iraq, hindsights a great thing and the Torys voted for it too, it wasn't just a unilateral action. Can you see the Brown and Blair gvt with this current mess of corruption, poor economic management, plus Brexit on top , because I can't, and no I don't work for labour and very voting between labour and lib dem depending where I've lived

You could argue that TB's government created the problems in the first place e.g. mass immigration and free movement and deflation of wages in real terms

@Crikeyalmighty
And with regards to Iraq, hindsights a great thing and the Torys voted for it too, it wasn't just a unilateral action.

No, this just isn't right. I can agree with a lot of what you say and I think TB did do some good stuff, but to imply that Iraq was an understandable mistake under the circumstances, just no. They had no credible evidence there were WMDs. And any info they had as to where those WMDs were, they gave to Hans Blix who searched and found nothing. He searched every place the secret services of all countries suggested and he concluded there was nothing to find. There were newspaper reports saying 45mins to destruction and the govt knew that was wrong but didn't correct it because they wanted public support. The govt admitted that in the Hutton Inquiry. In fact TB said that he went in because he knew America was going in and he thought it was better to show solidarity with them.
But even worse than the lies was the ill-preparation for after the war. They say they did prepare, but they prepared for the wrong thing. They thought certain things would happen and when it didn't, they were left flat-footed. That's not good enough. They should have prepared for all eventualities and they just didn't do that.
I didn't support the war but I 100% believed TB because I never thought a PM would lie to go to war and sacrifice lives of the armed forces. Maybe Tory and Lib Dem MPs also thought similar. The govt had the facts, not the opposition benches.
I'm happy to read posts that praise or criticise all parties but your implication that it's only with hindsight they can see their errors... No. They lied and manipulated the truth to get their way to enter the war which ultimately was for the aggrandisement of TB on the world stage.

I think you'd do better to turn your attention to the travesty of a government we have now OP.

They're not just deskilling our workforce - they're trashing the whole country.

Put your energy and concern towards rectifying that.

The pushing that all kids have to stay in education or do some kind of training was a big mistake, there are kids who have had enough of learning at 16, if you are going to say work in a supermarket, what college type learning do you need? The money would have been better funding a system where anyone can access two years of level 3 type learning up to age 40 free. Lots of people want to get a job at 16 but then decide at a later date that they want to change careers or want to advance at whatever they are doing & need further training. Learning & education isn't something that has to be done in a block up to age 21, some people aren't mature enough to learn at that age, I know I wasn't I got NVQ levels 2 & 3 when I was in my 30's through work.

I completely agree with that.
For lots of reasons your head might not be in education at 16 so being able to use those “credits” at a later date would be brilliant.

Me and my husband get called " unskilled labourers" as are everyone who can actually do a job that's not sitting behind a desk. It's infuriating, lorry drivers are skilled. Ot everyone can drive a very large vehicle for a very long period of time, butchery is hard with heavy physical lifting and you need an eye for anatomy, driving farm machinery is hard! They're big, very long hours, no breaks, no days off in harvest and lots of computer based and science based stuff that goes along with crop production. Being a cleaner you need a good eye for detail and pay serious attention to what you're doing as well as being seriously effecient. Time the MPs who have never done a proper days work in their lives should maybe realise how amazing and skilled people actually are doing the jobs that keeps the country going! Rather then being so condescending!

I have never considered HGV driving or butchery as 'unskilled' labour. Far from it. They are both very highly skilled and take extensive training. The average person who hasn't undergone the required training would not be able to carry out either of those jobs adequately.

Cleaning is unskilled though. I agree a good cleaner will have an eye for detail and no-one is denying that it's hard work, but that is not the same thing as being skilled. There is no specific training or recognised qualification necessary to do the job and what you need to learn can be learned in a matter of hours. It's literally just manual work that anyone (physical disabilities aside) can do.

Regardless of wording - skilled, etc, one thing's for sure. Cleaning is one of the most vital occupations there is. A good cleaner is a major part of maintaining infection control and hygiene. It's certainly a job role that should be better valued, better viewed, and better renumerated.

If ever there was a time to realise the importance of cleaners, it's during a pandemic.

Personally though I'd say good cleaning is a skill. A sadly too often underrated one.

social media is not a mickey mouse degree..i have a hand in handling one of various social media accounts for a charity that i volunteer for, i've seen the work that goes into maintaining it.. the need to be good at customer service, communications, techy stuff to do with each different platform and the devices you're using.. having to liase with several different teams, sending emails, finding sources, keeping a web page updated....etc. We currently use 6 different platforms, internally and publically, have to juggle media for 3 different departments within the organisation.

all of us who do it are adults of 30+ who have a working background in customer service, data management, computing and retail.. you couldn't hand this to a kid fresh out of a-levels and expect them to be able to do it.. it takes about 6 months to train anyone to be able to take over unsupervised, and the stress levels mean the position has high staff turnover because who wants to do volunteer work that affects your mental health so negatively?

Presumably it would take a few months to train up a new graduate too?

My husband employs numerous labourers, the majority of whom are on £150 a day.
£600 a week take home, I bet they don’t care if people think they’re unskilled.
They’re earning more than NQT and nurses with much less stress.

@SweetMaryHell

I’m a Tory supporter and can’t stand War Obsessed Blurgh but even I think everyone should have the opportunity to go to university if that’s what they want to do

In one way I agree with you, but in another, well - er - how can I put this? With the best will in the world, many people are simply not intelligent enough to go to university and study at degree level.

In one way I agree with you, but in another, well - er - how can I put this? With the best will in the world, many people are simply not intelligent enough to go to university and study at degree level.

You just have to look at some government ministers to see the evidence of that.

^I think a large number of degree courses are a very expensive con and I also think that apprenticeships and practical courses/training are not valued or accorded the respect they should be.
I feel very sorry for young people getting into so much debt for a qualification that isn't going to get them a job.^

This^

@AmberLynn1536

It always amazes me that people think electricians/heating engineers/plumbers are not academically inclined, you need maths, physics, you have to sit yearly written exams and do practical tests to keep your qualifications up to the latest requirements and be able to run your own business on top of all that.

Yes, but GCSE/A level Maths/Physics are nothing at all like the skills/exams that plumbers have to take - it's a completely different level and subject content. There's no way that plumbing/gas safe exams are anywhere near as hard nor broad as A level physics. They're very specific to the job in hand.

@RussianSpy101

My husband employs numerous labourers, the majority of whom are on £150 a day. £600 a week take home, I bet they don’t care if people think they’re unskilled. They’re earning more than NQT and nurses with much less stress.

But most will still be earning £150 a day when they're in their 50s, struggling with bad backs, no pension to look forward to, no sick pay, etc.

Whereas the "low" paid newly trained nurses will have enhanced sick/maternity pay far beyond the statutory requirements, paid holidays beyond statutory requirements, a well funded pension scheme with healthy tax free lump sum from aged 55, options for career progression meaning higher wages, etc.

Completely different scenarios and not appropriate to compare solely on starting wages.

@EvilPea

I completely agree with that. For lots of reasons your head might not be in education at 16 so being able to use those “credits” at a later date would be brilliant.

That's the biggest problem. It costs so much to retrain/train in later life and there's very little help/support to do it. We used to have a pretty good "adult" education sector but Blair scrapped it. I remember the booklets from our local adult education college which offered all kinds of courses, from basic literacy/numeracy through to flower arranging/poetry, through to book-keeping, plastering, etc. Literally something for everyone, and costs were low. The entire college closed around 2005 and there's simply nothing comparable now as the college of FE will only take on 16-18 year olds.