to blame Tony Blair for the lack of skilled workforce?

[dunkaccino]

In the 1980's only 15% of school leavers went into higher education leaving a good lot of people to become tradesmen/HGV drivers/butchers etc. Tony Blair decided in 1999 that 50% going to University was a great aim, which was finally achieved in 2019.

Now we have a lack of everyone useful - electricians, carpenters, fitters, engineers, butchers, drivers - coupled with a multitude of unskilled mickey mouse degree graduates who are of no practical use to anyone.

Covid & brexit have undeniably both played a part, but AIBU to think that Blairs idea was basically a bit shit and has left us lacking in the skilled workforce needed to run the country?

@NoDecentHandlesLeft

Ok but he probably could have done all that without his degree as well

He probably couldn't. To work in that kind of job you need a graduate degree. You may or may not agree with needing one, but most places will ask for one.

Managing social media accounts? Seriously? If you run your own company as in example above, your clients won’t care.

@UsedUpUsername He couldn’t, as he couldn’t have gained employment in managing social media himself, without that employment he couldn’t upskill himself enough to then be able to open his own business and gain clients from links he had made.

The 5 day 40 hour work week is totally unsustainable for a while host of reasons

What do you propose instead?

I disagree. You need to do degrees to study depth.

It is such a short sighted view. All subjects contribute to our society. You could say that we don’t need degrees for Maths and Science. They could easily be self taught too. If they were all self taught then l wonder which would be the most popular then? 🤔

Yanbu. I admired Tony Blair, and he was infinitely preferable to the political dregs we live with now, but in this he was very naive. There are so many university degrees that are pointless and so many graduates in jobs that didn’t previously require a degree. So many teenagers have been duped into spending tens of thousands of pounds and years of their lives for a degree that was pointless.

And as you say a lot of people now feel they are ‘too good’ for the many jobs needed to keep the country running.

many 18 year olds are not ready for the workplace so they may as well do a so called 'mickey mouse' degree first.

Neither are many post-graduate 21 year olds.

It comes with experience.

No one is ready for the workplace until they’ve worked in it. That’s why sandwich courses are so useful

You're absolutely right OP.

The consequences of his Education, Education, Education, led to society devaluing essential trades, lower wages, worsening working conditions - and eventually a labour shortage.

It's cost the taxpayer dear too. A significant proportion of student loans will never be paid off - because the student will never earn enough to do so. Increasing the number of graduates doesn't increase the amount of graduate roles. All that happened was non graduate roles began to ask for a degree (but without offering a graduate salary).

A pp suggested that everyone should have further education opportunities. I'd argue that affordable secure housing should be the priority when it comes to life essentials currently denied to all. But, as it happens we used to have well funded adult education colleges, offering all sorts of evening, part-time, and weekend courses - academic and vocational. There was plenty of opportunity to broaden the mind and explore new interests. The difference was people also had useful jobs and no student debt.

@Tealightsandd

You're absolutely right OP.

The consequences of his Education, Education, Education, led to society devaluing essential trades, lower wages, worsening working conditions - and eventually a labour shortage.

It's cost the taxpayer dear too. A significant proportion of student loans will never be paid off - because the student will never earn enough to do so. Increasing the number of graduates doesn't increase the amount of graduate roles. All that happened was non graduate roles began to ask for a degree (but without offering a graduate salary).

A pp suggested that everyone should have further education opportunities. I'd argue that affordable secure housing should be the priority when it comes to life essentials currently denied to all. But, as it happens we used to have well funded adult education colleges, offering all sorts of evening, part-time, and weekend courses - academic and vocational. There was plenty of opportunity to broaden the mind and explore new interests. The difference was people also had useful jobs and no student debt.

I may be mistaken, but did Tony Blair write yesterday's budget? Was there anything in the budget other than 3p off a pint of draught beer, to make you think that anything is going to change soon? What about for the past 10 years? Could anyone have been trained in a skill in that time?

To many people with Mickey Mouse degrees promoting a culture a mediocrity, when what we needed was engineers and bricklayers. Blair’s poliovirus dumbed down an entire generation

@Simonjt

A guy I play rugby with has a ‘mickey mouse’ degree, he employs over 100 people, his company specialises in managing the social media presence of large corporations.

He owns a detached house in Islington, so his ‘mickey mouse’ degree is serving him well.

You make a good point to show how he watered his time on that degree. Because no one, no one needs to a degree to be an entrepreneur. So his Mickey mouse’s degree was wasted after all

The problem is that the uni courses were subsidized (as opposed to apprenticeships) - and not in a way to promote shortage occupations.

They should have been more targeted in what uni courses to expand and subsidise; and also subsidise specific apprenticeships/skills training (that do not require 3yr degree).

What happened is that we have qualification inflation. So many degrees. So to stand out you need postgrad quals…

This thread reminds me of why Labour will be out of power for years to come. Do the Tories revile a single one of their ex-PMs as much as lefties revile Blair? Be careful what you wish for.

So... who knows someone who "really wanted to be a plumber" but studied Media Studies instead.

Anyone?

@sst1234 Without his degree he wouldn’t have been able to gain work in his chosen field, work where he learned his skills, made business contacts etc, without that he wouldn’t have been able to create a successful business.

I’m not sure what a watered his time means, English isn’t my first language and I haven’t heard watered being used like that before.

I think this all goes back to the grammar school system, where it was seen as desirable to go to the grammar school and therefore the academic route. From then on anything practical looks like second best. The trades don't seem to be considered to be a professional alternative like they have in Europe. It's all ingrained in our stupid class system.

Yes the Blair sin business is a rather bitter pill.

@Morgoth your post about the lower achieving graduate now taking up the roles formerly taken by the 16+ : I think in many cases they are the same type of candidate separated by 30 years.
That's the con. Don't get me started on the whole paying for your own trainjng element of this change in the jobs market!

Blair son! That's an autocorrect not a typo.😲

It kept the unemployment levels lower if students continued to be in education longer.

Yes, a lot of jobs dint need a degree before

@sst1234

To many people with Mickey Mouse degrees promoting a culture a mediocrity, when what we needed was engineers and bricklayers. Blair’s poliovirus dumbed down an entire generation

Then we were told we had a skill shortage

I think this all goes back to the grammar school system, where it was seen as desirable to go to the grammar school and therefore the academic route. From then on anything practical looks like second best.

Way back in the 1950s when my dad was at school his parents didnt want their kids to go to a grammar (and wouldn't let them sit the 11+)
because they wanted them to leave school earlier and learn a trade....

[quote Simonjt]@UsedUpUsername He couldn’t, as he couldn’t have gained employment in managing social media himself, without that employment he couldn’t upskill himself enough to then be able to open his own business and gain clients from links he had made.[/quote]
It’s not necessary. You successfully manage social media accounts for businesses, you don’t need a degree to do it and it’s often done on a freelance or contract basis.

I did an impractical, arty degree.

I have gone on to do a highly technical job, which many people on this website rely on. The degree got me a foot in the door as being someone who was willing to learn and was capable of doing so.

I am interested in butchery, but never tried for a career in it, because it's badly paid compared to what I do. That's the problem, right there. Taking employees for granted.

@UsedUpUsername You don’t seem to understand, he was only able to create his business because his degree has enabled him to gain five years of experience as an employee in a company that develops social media platforms. Without the degree he wouldn’t have the experience, knowledge, or vital business contracts.

@KrispyKale

Yes the Blair sin business is a rather bitter pill.

@Morgoth your post about the lower achieving graduate now taking up the roles formerly taken by the 16+ : I think in many cases they are the same type of candidate separated by 30 years.
That's the con. Don't get me started on the whole paying for your own trainjng element of this change in the jobs market!

Yep. Bang on @KrispyKale. This is what I was trying to articulate but not as well as you. Exactly the same sort of person in relation to ability and competency, just separated by time. Those that would normally have been the ones to go into such industries are now the low-tier grads who like you said, 30 years ago, would be the ones filling these positions instead of the polytechnic uni places they are nowadays.

The trouble is, as a country, we have an obsession with academia. We need to re-educate society that trades people etc are just well qualified and intelligent and valuable as anyone with a degree, and sometimes more so.