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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to blame Tony Blair for the lack of skilled workforce?

493 replies

dunkaccino · 28/10/2021 15:57

In the 1980's only 15% of school leavers went into higher education leaving a good lot of people to become tradesmen/HGV drivers/butchers etc. Tony Blair decided in 1999 that 50% going to University was a great aim, which was finally achieved in 2019.

Now we have a lack of everyone useful - electricians, carpenters, fitters, engineers, butchers, drivers - coupled with a multitude of unskilled mickey mouse degree graduates who are of no practical use to anyone.

Covid & brexit have undeniably both played a part, but AIBU to think that Blairs idea was basically a bit shit and has left us lacking in the skilled workforce needed to run the country?

OP posts:
SarahBellam · 28/10/2021 17:39

I know a person with a 'Mickey Mouse' degree. She's a hair and makeup stylist in Hollywood now, and has worked on many high profile blockbuster movies at TV series. It's not the degree that's important. It's what you do with it.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 28/10/2021 17:39

@LampLighter414

Well the Tory Government and school system have kept that mentality for the 10+ years since they've been in power, so its not all Labour's fault. Ponder that.
The Conservatives had also had a policy of expanding University places. From the 1997 Manifesto: 'Almost 1 in 3 young people now go on to university, compared with 1 in 8 in 1979.' Thatcher was elected in 1979 and Blair in 1997.
User135644 · 28/10/2021 17:40

The problem with the high numbers of people going to Uni is people who graduate will tend to think they're over qualified to be a truck driver or whatever, or it's beneath them.

Uni should be preserved for skilled professions to deal with our skilled worker shortages and sack off the timewasting degrees.

DGRossetti · 28/10/2021 17:41

The bottom line is education is run for the benefit of educators in much the same way the police are run for the benefit of the police and the health service is run for the benefit if its administrators and train companies are run for the benefit of their bosses.

After all a pupil will be in and out in 5 years. These people have to spend their lives squeezing money out of the system it may as well benefit them in the meantime.

As long as enough bright kids bubble up to keep us in prosecco and veal then it's not really an issue how many fail is it ?

Anyone more cynical than me today ?

kitchenhail · 28/10/2021 17:43

I'm politically homeless and have been for a long time; I dislike Blair intensely and think the Tories are no better.

I have a first in an arts subject and had a blast at uni, made great friends, grew up a bit and really enjoyed my course. I might have gone down the further study route but even then (early 2000s) the writing was on the wall that the part of my subject I was most interested in was not commercial enough to really make sense as a career decision. Still now, were I to win the lottery, I'd happily fund myself through a masters and doctorate just for the sheer enjoyment of learning.

I have very loosely used my degree in my career history but the subject matter was a bonus, the only requirement was any degree. I now work in one of the very few industries left that pay well, have good pensions but don't require anything beyond maths and English GCSE, and even then I'm not sure you'd get knocked back without them.

I have a few friends from my uni days who wish they had done something vocational. I really wish we valued trades/vocations in this country and as others have said, didn't see them as lesser, something for those who aren't academically inclined to do. Why would intelligence have any bearing on whether you want to do a trade or get a degree? I don't see the relationship at all.

Equally, I think we should value education for education's sake, for a love of learning and to know more about the world. The commodification of universities and the move towards students as consumers is removing the value of a degree just as much as the fact that everyone has one. It seems more and more difficult for people to fail anything. I don't know how to reconcile all my opinions because I recognise how hard it would be to return to a funded university model, for multiple reasons.

KrispyKale · 28/10/2021 17:44

Sarah hair and makeup at that level is rather niche.
It's not a critical skills shortage area.

Charliealphatangorara · 28/10/2021 17:44

Being a school leaver in 1998 I can remember an abundance of vocational qualifications and apprenticeships that many of my peers did and learnt a trade, so I don't see evidence of this. University tuition fees were introduced shortly before my time, but at this point they were not the astronomical price we see today. I think more people went to university that would otherwise not have done, but I think in later decades the huge costs have put some people off.

What was lacking back then was decent careers advice, so many people won't have been aware of their different options. For example, I'd never have chosen to be a plumber or an electrician because no body ever told me about being one, what I'd earn, how much work I could get etc.

godwingolly · 28/10/2021 17:46

Massification of higher education started in 1988. Well documented. Polys becoming universities in 1992 to respond to the demand and standardise the sector. The reasons for this this were, decline in heavy industry (so not the same mop up of post-16 year olds leaving school) and plenty of evidence that economies with the fastest growth had more citizens who had been in higher education.

So not Tony. He just continued something happening in all globalised capitalist economies and what the neoliberal Tory government started in Britain.

UsedUpUsername · 28/10/2021 17:50

@SweetMaryHell

I’m a Tory supporter and can’t stand War Obsessed Blurgh but even I think everyone should have the opportunity to go to university if that’s what they want to do
We shouldn’t pay for it though. Only STEM subjects imho. And only if you test in
Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 28/10/2021 17:57

Tony Blair sold everyone a lie.

Rivermonsters · 28/10/2021 17:57

Agreed. it’s just a waste of money spending god knows how much for some second rate degree at whatever polytechnic, unpopular but true

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 28/10/2021 17:57

Only STEM subjects?!😂wtf?

Why should they be prioritised over anything else? Why are they more important?

Hang on though… l did Fashion. Both a Mickey Mouse and a STEM subject. How would that be paid for then?😂

DGRossetti · 28/10/2021 17:58

Uni should be preserved for skilled professions to deal with our skilled worker shortages and sack off the timewasting degrees.

As far as I am concerned, people should be encouraged to study whatever they want to the highest level they are capable of achieving. And that should be considered as a lifetime promise - so if you aren't ready at 18, you could take it up at 28. Or 38. Or 48. And the state should offer that to all.

Rivermonsters · 28/10/2021 18:00

@ColinTheKoala ‘Mickey Mouse’ degrees are a thing unfortunately, is it really worth paying £9K a year for ‘Asia Pacific studies’ or ‘BsC esports’

jgw1 · 28/10/2021 18:01

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Only STEM subjects?!😂wtf?

Why should they be prioritised over anything else? Why are they more important?

Hang on though… l did Fashion. Both a Mickey Mouse and a STEM subject. How would that be paid for then?😂

Only things whose economic value is easily measurable have any worth.
User135644 · 28/10/2021 18:04

@godwingolly

Massification of higher education started in 1988. Well documented. Polys becoming universities in 1992 to respond to the demand and standardise the sector. The reasons for this this were, decline in heavy industry (so not the same mop up of post-16 year olds leaving school) and plenty of evidence that economies with the fastest growth had more citizens who had been in higher education.

So not Tony. He just continued something happening in all globalised capitalist economies and what the neoliberal Tory government started in Britain.

Let's not forget Blairism was about continuing most of what Thatcher did. He was very much a neoliberal.
ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 28/10/2021 18:05

What would happen to the likes of Philisophy then? As invented by Greeks way before ‘Stem’ subjects…

jgw1 · 28/10/2021 18:07

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

What would happen to the likes of Philisophy then? As invented by Greeks way before ‘Stem’ subjects…
Since it was invented by the Greeks and we have left the EU we don't need it.
jgw1 · 28/10/2021 18:08

Let's not forget Blairism was about continuing most of what Thatcher did. He was very much a neoliberal.

All this history is fascinating, did anyone enjoy the budget yesterday as much as I did, or was it so dull we have to discuss a hasbeen?

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 28/10/2021 18:08

Jgw1

😂😂 yeah that’s true.

Chloemol · 28/10/2021 18:10

Agree. If kids want to go to university fine, but for ‘proper’ degrees to support their future jobs not Mickey Mouse ones that are nouse to anyone

I also feel he has stigmatised those who would be better at the old technical college or apprenticeship schemes, both of which need to make a return asap

jgw1 · 28/10/2021 18:11

@Chloemol

Agree. If kids want to go to university fine, but for ‘proper’ degrees to support their future jobs not Mickey Mouse ones that are nouse to anyone

I also feel he has stigmatised those who would be better at the old technical college or apprenticeship schemes, both of which need to make a return asap

Why does learning have to have anything to do with getting a job? Can one not simply learn stuff to improve oneself and because one finds the subject interesting?
UsedUpUsername · 28/10/2021 18:12

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

What would happen to the likes of Philisophy then? As invented by Greeks way before ‘Stem’ subjects…
Learn it on your own time and dime. Better options online anyway these days, and largely free
ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 28/10/2021 18:13

Or Classical Civilisation as worshipped by the story party. Would that be paid for too? And maybe Latin?

WhereYouLeftIt · 28/10/2021 18:14

@dunkaccino

In the 1980's only 15% of school leavers went into higher education leaving a good lot of people to become tradesmen/HGV drivers/butchers etc. Tony Blair decided in 1999 that 50% going to University was a great aim, which was finally achieved in 2019.

Now we have a lack of everyone useful - electricians, carpenters, fitters, engineers, butchers, drivers - coupled with a multitude of unskilled mickey mouse degree graduates who are of no practical use to anyone.

Covid & brexit have undeniably both played a part, but AIBU to think that Blairs idea was basically a bit shit and has left us lacking in the skilled workforce needed to run the country?

I think you've got some seriously rose-tinted glasses on when you're thinking of pre-1999.

My dad was an apprentice fitter in the late 1950s. It was the norm to be laid off (or fired, if you prefer) as soon as you had served your apprenticeship, because as a time-served and qualified fitter they actually had to pay you a decent wage and not the buttons an apprentice could be paid. He then went and worked for a firm that didn't want the bother of training apprentices because that meant that the time-served fitters 'wasted' some of their time training their apprentice and not working!

There has ALWAYS been a lack of "everyone useful", and that lack can mostly be laid squarely at the door of employers.