Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

Usually it's over 8s OP

Or whatever the local swimming pool changing room rules are

My DS went to men's changing rooms (to be fair it was next to women's) from then happily as he could change himself and didn't want to get changed with his mum and younger sisters

If the individual changing units aren't free and you end up changing in communal single sex changing rooms - you may start to get other women complaining at you.

My DS was so tall for his age that at just turned 6 another mother stared for ages then started shouting that "he shouldn't be in there", it was mortifying for DS, who was minding his own business changing discretely with his towel round him. (And there were older boys than mine also changing in there with their mums. )

I had to say "he's only just turned 6 so leave us alone"
It was horrid for my son who refused to change with us after then, incase "a mean woman" shouted at him again. He used to stand shivering in his towel outside the single changing rooms waiting until one was free. I started taking him two towels (one with a hood to put over him)

So I think you'd be wise to send him to the men's or he's able to manage changing if that's your local leisure centre age rules.

@stingofthebutterfly

And once again.

It is a women's space. There will be 8 yea old girls naked in there. Should they be naked in front of boys from their class? Should they need to change with those boys walking around?

The boys arent an actual threat. No one is saying that. But they are boys. In a women's space. With girls their own age naked. Is that ok?

No.
Girls deserve privacy. Girls will be hitting puberty and they do not want a boy seeing them naked. A lot of 8 year old boys are large. They dont look like little children.

It isnt about the boy. It isnt about whether or not he has hired puberty. It is about the girls. It is their space. Keep your 8 years old boys out of if.

[quote ImUninsultable]@Holly60

An 8 year old girl should not have to stand naked in front of a boy from her class, which is what will end up happening in a local pool when women decide the rules dont apply to their son and he can go in because "he's only walking thought to go to a cubicle and it really doesn't matter".

Girls deserve privacy and dignity. An 8 year old should not be in the women's changing where his peers may be naked. It is not a space for him to be in.[/quote]
….in your opinion.

@Cofifeefee

I find it sad that so many posters are treating an 8 year old accompanied by his mum like a predator that would make girls uncomfortable while at the same time dismissing any risk to the boy being alone with strange adult men.

Shouldn't we be safeguarding children, whether they are female or male?

You are very right, all children need protecting. People need to speak up, complain to their local leisure centre, and vote with their feet.

8 seems very young to be changing alone in men's changing rooms. But likewise an 8 year old girl isn't going to feel comfortable with an 8 year old boy in the ladies, so I do understand why he shouldn't be in there.

It's a tough one though. Family change rooms are good for this reason, it's a shame they don't have one.

….in your opinion.

The opinion of anybody who gives a shit about girls.

@ImUninsultable oh FFS. There are cubicles. Nobody is forced to be seen naked. Don't make an issue out of something that doesn't happen.

@Holly60

No. Not my opinion.
Child psychologist. Worked for chidline.

My educated, thought through conclusion after years of listening to girls.

It is also the widely adopted policy around leisure centres.

But since you want to discuss opinion, I will as yours.

Should an 8 year old girl have to stand naked in front of boys from her class?

There’s no way on earth I’d let my 8 year old in the men’s on his own. After being assaulted as a teenager myself, the thought of him being at risk terrifies me. We’re very lucky that the pools we use both have family changing options. I think all pools should have to provide that option with cubicles personally.

I also used to get my son to sing a song when he was waiting for me and he was still young. I remember he gave a particularly fine rendition of 'St Brigid ... brings the spring" when I needed to use the toilet in Washington DC airport.

@MakkaPakkas

I think it's fine to have them in the women's up until puberty starts tbh. The best is if you can find a pool with family changing though. Then if there are women who feel uncomfortable with it there is a designated women's space.

Rubbish. He might not have started puberty but some of the girls in the changing room might have. Don't their feelings matter?

There is no way on earth I'd send my 8 year old son into a male changing room by himself. Thankfully I have somewhere with unisex changing.

@stingofthebutterfly

There are not always cubicles.

There are often a handful of cubicles within an open plan changing area. If the boy used a cubicle, he is still walking through the communal changing area where girls are (and quite rightly are allowed to be) naked. If he uses the cubicle then he is taking one away from a girl who wanted to use it.

Boys do not get to go into women's changing areas. Girls deserve privacy and comfort. They should not be the ones pushed aside and told to be kind because a boy isnt allowed into the men's changing area. Where there are also cubicles. He can use those.

Our pool says 8 for boys changing in the mens. However I have to be honest and say that my DS still comes in with me (he is nearly 9). I just don't feel comfortable letting him go in alone.

@Tink626

Do you think girls are comfortable with him there?

At what point will their comfort be enough to stop you?

What do dads with daughters do in places like this?

Both mine changed by themselves at 8.
All fine.

[quote ImUninsultable]@stingofthebutterfly

And once again.

It is a women's space. There will be 8 yea old girls naked in there. Should they be naked in front of boys from their class? Should they need to change with those boys walking around?

The boys arent an actual threat. No one is saying that. But they are boys. In a women's space. With girls their own age naked. Is that ok?

No.
Girls deserve privacy. Girls will be hitting puberty and they do not want a boy seeing them naked. A lot of 8 year old boys are large. They dont look like little children.

It isnt about the boy. It isnt about whether or not he has hired puberty. It is about the girls. It is their space. Keep your 8 years old boys out of if.[/quote]
I imagine the boys would like some privacy too.

But while you acknowledge women deserve a safe space from men, you don't seem to acknowledge that small boys deserve the same.

while you acknowledge women deserve a safe space from men, you don't seem to acknowledge that small boys deserve the same.

This.

@CatJumperTwat

….in your opinion.

The opinion of anybody who gives a shit about girls.

Why so angry? I care about girls. I am one, I have a daughter, I have grand daughters. At no point did I ever think an 8 year old boy getting changed in a cubicle (the horror!!) was any kind of threat to them.

No one would think it's ok for an 8 year old girl to be alone in a room with a load of unknown men so I have no idea why it would be ok for a boy?

This. It's not ok from a safeguarding perspective for an 8 year old boy to be alone with a load of adult men who are strangers in an environment where they're undressed.

The National Crime Agency says that 1 in 35 men have a sexual interest in children. So it's not an incredibly small number of men that we're talking about. Statistically, if you go swimming regularly and send your son to change alone, there's quite a good chance that he will come across a paedophile in the changing-rooms at some point, when he is undressed and vulnerable.

This doesn't mean that 8 year old boys should be allowed to change with girls and women, but it does mean that the safety risk to them needs to be taken into account. The best solution is family/unisex changing spaces but, if the pool doesn't have any and you can't use another pool, coming already in swimmers or changing in the car/poolside might be an option.

Sending an 8 year old alone into the men's changing rooms would be a last resort for me and I would talk very seriously to them about safety and give them a rape alarm. Boys are victims of male violence as well as women and girls, and their safety also needs to be considered (although I agree not at the expense of privacy and dignity for women and girls).

In most cases, it should be possible to find a solution even if it means boycotting pools who don't have family changing spaces.

Blimey. So mothers of sons think it's ok (one of them up to freaking puberty???) to take them into a space where girls are changing?

Fuck that. As a mother of girls, i would tell you to leave. I wouldn't ask i would tell.

All I'm seeing here is that boys' rights override girls' rights. Fucking bloody Norah. What is wrong with people here.

Grown women may be fine with boys in their space - frankly, after about 5 i'm not but I'm ok with up to 8 if that is the rule - but did you think about the girls? Only your sons, right?

And when there’s not? I guess then us Mother’s of SEN males just stay at home and accept our kids won’t learn to swim. Sounds very inclusive.

I want to be inclusive and i think it is a massive issue that there isn't somewhere suitable for them to change. And that is something we all have to work on improving. But again: why should girls put up with a male in their changing room?

Why don't their flippin' dads take them if you're all so worried about men in changing rooms? And actually, there will be dads with their sons in changing rooms. But they're all potentially paedos, right? so that means husbands of women here are all potentially paedos. Got it.

We should just lock all men up so boys can go where they like?

The correct answer, of course, is the list of facilities that one pp wrote.

Here’s a novel idea, let’s have a men only time, maybe an hour a day. The rest of the time no men are allowed. Then women, girls and boys can go about their business without worrying about their safety, boys can use boys can girls can use girls.

while you acknowledge women deserve a safe space from men, you don't seem to acknowledge that small boys deserve the same.

Yup. Boys need a safe space too. They are also victims of male violence.

@MissChanandlerBong81

I’m not a “paedo on every corner” person but I do believe that if you are a paedo, then the very places you would choose to hang out are the places where young children are nude, and separated from their parents. A swimming room changing room fits this bill.

Exactly. Statistics about the prevalence of paedophilia in the general male population aren’t really relevant because the fact is that if you are a pervert then leisure centres are decidedly attractive places.

My local leisure centre used to have a problem with a pervert or perverts drilling holes at child genital level in the walls of the family cubicles. We used to look around for them and stuff then with toilet paper before getting changed at every visit. If you Google ‘leisure centres hidden cameras’ you’ll find more news stories than you care to count.

I’m as gender critical a feminist as they come. But denying the reality of male sexual violence is totally counter-productive. All children are at risk from it.

I’m sorry, I still think that the chances of a male paedophile hanging out in a swimming pool changing room and assaulting an unknown boy with other adults present are infinitesimally small. And even more so in what OP describes as a private gym that hosts swimming lessons, so will know the names and addresses of all people in there at any time. Not an ideal environment for random offending. Most child sexual abuse happens in the family home.