Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

@FreeBritnee

Eh? I sound lovely? What was your issue with my post?

Is there any family section? I was very lucky as there were individual family shower rooms with locks in the swimming pool we regularly used. I could bring the boy in with me to shower and change after 8 years old.

Hated the virgin active pool which had no family area. He was under 8 when we were there, though. I'd probably stand outside the entrance and shout in 'are you alright' every two minutes, and wait for his response if he was alone in a changing area. I used to do that when he'd pop into the gents in airports.

@IAAP

Is your pool all cubicles in the women's? Or is your son walking through a communal changing area, where girls his own age will be changing, and then taking one of the cubicles away from the use of a woman or girl?

@Elephantsparade

Its very hard as a mum of boys to send your young boy into the mens alone. There are as many male victims of paedophiles as female as its basically the vulnerability and opportunity rather than the sex of the child that is the risk factor. Whilst the feminists on this board are very vocal about male violence to other men not being womens problem it is a mothers problem. I stopped swimming at my local pool because of this and found one with unisex changing booths as well as single sex rooms. My local pool has since had an upgrade. (My son has asd and wasnt ready at 8) So you could lobby the pool for some family cubicles, arrive and leave in bathers or find a new pool. I think 8 generally works because its clearly pre-puberty wheras by 9 some boys are beginning with puberty and getting quite big.

Yes I agree with this. Its certainly my problem. As a mum of two sons I want to protect them at all costs. I dont want to make females uncomfortable in any way but I also want my boys to be safe.

This thread is so entitled. You you prefer to change with your son, and the hell with all the girls who are in their supposedly sex-segregated changing room?

If your son is the age children are normally expected to be able to change themselves and the pool has rules that children that age go to the changing room of their sex, then that's that. You can go to family changing room or if there are special needs, then of course the disabled changing room.

If there are no such facilities, demand that the pool organises them or go to a different pool. The solution can't be trampling over women's right to sex-segregated facilities and demanding that they are the ones who have to be uncomfortable and adjust their boundaries.

@HeartvsBrain

I am disabled, but if there is a unisex disabled changing room, then please use that. The same goes for public toilets, if there are any unisex disabled loos around, and a DC needs to go, then please use the the disabled toilet, just be as quick as possible please!

please don't. it might stop an actual disabled person from being able to use it.

I think it's fine to have them in the women's up until puberty starts tbh.
The best is if you can find a pool with family changing though. Then if there are women who feel uncomfortable with it there is a designated women's space.

@Cofifeefee

Oh FFS. You're using language deliberately designed to make women standing up for women's spaces sound mad.

An 8 year old is not a predator. No one has said that. No one thinks that.

But an 8 year old boy is not a woman or a girl. They do not get to come into the women's changing area. It's not about him being a predator. It is about the women and girls not wanting to be naked in front of a growing boy who is not a baby anymore.

Should an 8 year old girl from that boys class be quite happy to stand there naked while he walks through? No. Doesnt make him a predator. It makes her a girl who desires privacy from her peer seeing her naked.

@Tiredmum100

My ds are 8 and 9. They go to swimming lessons at our local pool. If I take them they come into the female changing rooms, if dh take them then they go into the male changing rooms. We go all ready, in swim wear, dressing gowns and flip flops. When they come out they shower (all showers have cubicle doors) and then into a locked cubicle to get changed. I would not feel happy with my ds going into a male changing room unaccompanied. My ds don't go out on their own, so I couldn't imagine sending them to a swimming pool on their own. If there were no locked showers or cubicles I would probably take them home to shower.

But you’re not sending them to the swimming pool on their own, just into the changing room.

Everytime he goes in there he is violating women's hard earned rights

He's eight...ffs. He is vulnerable due to his age and equally unable to defend himself as a girl the same age.

It's clear my son is not going to be able to access changing rooms indepently at 10 (the cut off at our local pool) I've discussed it with staff at the pool ahead of time and I've been asked to use a changing room intended for people with physical disabilities. But they did mention that the sooner more pools have unisex spaces and more cubicles the better it would be for accessibility all round. Certainly the next town has that sort of set up, with a couple of open rooms for single sex use off them if you're in a hurry and don't want to wait for a cubicle.

@G5000

This thread is so entitled. You you prefer to change with your son, and the hell with all the girls who are in their supposedly sex-segregated changing room?

If your son is the age children are normally expected to be able to change themselves and the pool has rules that children that age go to the changing room of their sex, then that's that. You can go to family changing room or if there are special needs, then of course the disabled changing room.

If there are no such facilities, demand that the pool organises them or go to a different pool. The solution can't be trampling over women's right to sex-segregated facilities and demanding that they are the ones who have to be uncomfortable and adjust their boundaries.

Totally agree.

I find it really really sad that so many people think that a men’s changing room in a swimming pool is “just not safe” for an eight year old boy whose Mum is outside. Do you really believe that there is a paedophile lurking round every corner, and that they would prey on a young boy in full view of other men? What a sad, paranoid perspective in society. I blame the Sun.

I agree. It would be interesting to hear from someone who works at a leisure centre to see what their perspective is. What safeguarding is in place.

Presumably if someones behaviour in a changing room was suspicious others would raise a concern to staff? Are there any statistics for how often assaults occur in these circumstances to know if it is a real threat?

I had this problem, is it swimming lessons or a family swim? I solved it by taking a friend with us, I felt much better sending two sometimes 3 8yrs olds into the changing room. Felt they were much less vulnerable going in with another child, plus they loved having a friend with them, win win.

My Dad raised me alone, I think until 8 he would take me into the men’s toilets with his hands over my eyes

@Comedycook
But that's not for women and girls to solve.

Young girls do not need to be naked in front of a boy who should not be there. That's all there is to it. Doesnt matter what else is going on. He cannot be walking into a women's changing room.

Lobby the centre. Change discreetly poolside. But do not intrude on girls and women changing just because you've decided his comfort is more important. It is equally important but the women's changing is provided for women and girls so his comfort doesnt come into the discussion. It isnt for him

If it’s a swimming lesson isn’t it just kids and parents in the changing rooms?
As a parent if you don’t want your child changing alone that’s fine none of my business, however that doesn’t give you the right to use the wrong single sex space. You’d have to make other arrangements such as not changing at the pool, changing by the side of the pool, changing in the loo, changing in the disabled if he has special needs, his Dad taking him. I’ve not known the cut off to be anything but below 8, usually there are signs up or you could ask
Schools are required to provide single sex changing after a certain age. When they have school swimming lessons changing is single sex (and was in my day too). 8 or 9 is common for girls to start puberty hence the single sex at 8

Our local Nuffield gym has a policy of 8 or over. A lot of mums of boys were not happen when this was enforced a few weeks ago. However there are no cubicles in the ladies changing room so it was very inappropriate for 4 or 5 eight, nine and ten year old boys running around the ladies changing rooms so I was very glad the rule was enforced.

As soon as 8th birthday no male child should be in a female changing room. If SEN then use disabled cubicle with him. Absolutely not fair on female children. There are not always enough cubicles in female changing rooms so all females can't get to use a cubicle. I have complained at my gym before when a male child who looked closer to 10 was in female changing room and person came from reception and asked mother of child to remove him into male changing room. She was told over 8 years in sex appropriate changing rooms.

@tailspin21 I’m afraid I’m in the ‘your son is too old to be in the women’s changing room’ camp. Most schools separate kids at this age for pe changing, lots of reasons, including periods, religion, safeguarding, self-consciousness. I know it’s tough, I had exactly this issue with my son, at the same age. But it’s not a problem that you should solve by imposing him on a female only space. Women and girls deserve privacy when they are naked, and no one, even stressed-out mums or PPs , has the right to give that right away.

We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym.
You say you are there for lessons, so I assume he has a teacher. In which case, you could stand guard in conversation contact with him outside the men’s changing room, drop him at his class, and then go and change. Alternatively, and if you are just swimming together, once he is changed, he waits for you poolside, not in the pool. If you don’t trust him, you can tell a life guard he’s not allowed in until you’re there.

There are lots of practical solutions to this, allowing your DS to breach social boundaries for your personal convenience should not be one of them.

@Wife2b

My Dad raised me alone, I think until 8 he would take me into the men’s toilets with his hands over my eyes

The thing is, sending a child into the ladies loos alone is far less risky than sending a child alone into the men's loos.

Unisex changing areas are not the answer, sadly. All that does is spread the risk to women and girls. Of course NAMALT, but it's the few who are that create the threat.

Statistically, mixing the sexes in gym, spa or pool changing areas increases the incidence of sexual assault on women and girls - and presumably little boys, too - by a factor of 8. Even from a very low base, that's an alarming increase.

And of course if we ever get self-id, or if management is woke enough to allow it, every changing area effectively becomes unisex and the risk goes up accordingly. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Check whether your gym or pool allows people to "use the facilities they feel most comfortable with" before you take your children or yourself in. It's a kind thought and well-meant, but while making a few people feel accepted and welcome, it opens the door to a very different sort of person.

Of course these predatory people are few and far between, but how many sexual assaults on children and women are an acceptable sacrifice?

I'm thinking of a number less than one.

You're overthinking. He's a child who hasn't yet hit puberty. If you want to take him into the ladies then do so. If he wants to go into the men's then let him.

Our pool only has unisex changing rooms so we don't have a choice.

I’m not a “paedo on every corner” person but I do believe that if you are a paedo, then the very places you would choose to hang out are the places where young children are nude, and separated from their parents. A swimming room changing room fits this bill.

Exactly. Statistics about the prevalence of paedophilia in the general male population aren’t really relevant because the fact is that if you are a pervert then leisure centres are decidedly attractive places.

My local leisure centre used to have a problem with a pervert or perverts drilling holes at child genital level in the walls of the family cubicles. We used to look around for them and stuff then with toilet paper before getting changed at every visit. If you Google ‘leisure centres hidden cameras’ you’ll find more news stories than you care to count.

I’m as gender critical a feminist as they come. But denying the reality of male sexual violence is totally counter-productive. All children are at risk from it.

@Youarethecurry

Isn't there a family changing room? I can't see that you're the only one to have this problem if there is single sex changing only. Surely a man taking his young daughters to the pool wouldn't be expected to bring them into the men's changing area? Why would the gym admit children when it's so obvious that this is going to present a problem?

Why wouldn't a dad take his young daughter into the men's changing area? It's no different.

I learn a lot from MN but these kind of views make me doubt myself until I realise its just MN hysteria that doesn't reflect the real world.

I take 3-4yo DD in the men's changing area probably 50% of the time (rather than queue for limited family cubicles). Never seen any strange behaviour, just other men, other dads, some with sons some with daughters.

The worst part is DD likes to point out other kids clothing such as "that boys got spiderman knick kicks, I've got Peppa knick knicks"!