Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

I belonged to an expensive sports, gym and health club. It was built with relaxation areas in the separate changing rooms for women and men - big showers, jacuzzi, tanning beds, steam room, sauna etc. Then they had families joining, some had au pairs bringing children. I had to put a towelling robe on one day and get a staff member on reception to come in as one very pregnant woman was very upset at this 9 year old boy who kept looking at her. His parents insisted he had to be with the au pair. In the end the point was made that they needed family changing facilities.

My dh used to swim regularly at the over 50's sessions at lunchtime following the school sessions The unsupervised dcs would threaten to say the older men were paedophiles and centre staff had to insist teachers supervised the dcs.

As a mother to a girl, I wouldn't bat an eyelid if I saw another mother with her son in the female changing room. Because as a mother I know I wouldn't be happy sending my own into a changing room by themselves.

I live in Manchester and a few years back there was an incident in Debenhams (Arndale). A 14 YO boy was raped by a male whilst using the toilet. Absolutely unthinkable.

Whilst the risk of a sexual assault happening in a male changing room may be statistically low, the consequences are fucking severe and I just wouldn't expect much less demand that another parent takes that chance.

Covid has taught us that our children are so much more capable than we think!
DD swims twice a week, no parents allowed in the building once swimming resumed, at first kids came out in bathers and a onesie on top....now only swimmers in the changing rooms - boys & girls separately. These are from age 6+.
Parents wait outside. The kids have it sorted 🤷‍♀️...just leave an extra 5 minutes!

Granted there are no ALN to consider here...but as a single mum to boys with ALN, after age 8 use the disabled, unisex room, or go home wet with onesie on top!
Girls age 8+ are entitled to privacy, as are their male peers.

As a mother to a girl, I wouldn't bat an eyelid if I saw another mother with her son in the female changing room. Because as a mother I know I wouldn't be happy sending my own into a changing room by themselves.

that's lovely. You simply disregard any feelings your daughter might have about it. nice

My DS is 8, I would take him in with me and change in a cubicle. TBH I'm only just letting him go in mens toilets and even then I try to make sure no one is in there before he goes in and I wait outside.

No idea what the cut off age is, but I'm going with my instinct on this

@AudacityBaby

I do wonder how there are so many people on here who have no other option but to take their sons into womens’ facilities. Where are the fathers? It reminds me of the way somehow mysteriously men can never take time off or do childcare or reduce hours or what have you.

Women expect other women to do more than they expect of their men. Here, they expect girls to bear the brunt of having married men who won’t go to the swimming pool and protect their own children from danger. Women learn this, young, and that’s what makes it so important that the question is turned back around on men. These are their children. Why aren’t they even interested in this situation? Because women are letting them off the hook, as other women can be relied upon to budge up and sort the problem out for them.

You need to start your own thread on that one. BUT realistically its the mothers who usually are the SAHM or part time. I think it's not even worth the debate tbh.

@Brefugee

As a mother to a girl, I wouldn't bat an eyelid if I saw another mother with her son in the female changing room. Because as a mother I know I wouldn't be happy sending my own into a changing room by themselves.

that's lovely. You simply disregard any feelings your daughter might have about it. nice

Just like the feelings of a young boy are to be disregarded. It's very hard to find a solution best for all. I remember that Arndale centre incident. Awful. Children in getting ready on their own has one big advantage - no adult males there at all.

Would people really be uncomfortable with an 8/9 year old boy in the women's changing rooms?
I would be from about age 6 or 7, though I'd accept it at that age as I understand not all children that age are ready to use the men's alone. From 8 I'd expect that they not be in the women's.

@onelittlefrog

Would people really be uncomfortable with an 8/9 year old boy in the women's changing rooms?

I would be fine up until 10, and at that age would think he'd be OK on his own in the men's.

With an 8/9 year old I'd be more worried that they would forget to lock their locker or something!

In my school the children have swimming lessons as part of the curriculum from the age of around 8yrs old.

I think it's a fairly safe bet that the girls would be very uncomfortable at having the boys in the same changing rooms as them.

I can't imagine the parents being happy with it either.

I just wouldn't expect —much less demand— that another parent takes that chance.

Nobody is saying “you must send your child alone into a men’s changing room”. They are saying “you mustn’t bring him into the women’s”. The difference is huge.

The case you mention was horrific, of course. The child attacked was 14yo - should 14yo boys be allowed to change in women’s changing rooms?

@BunNcheese I think it’s worth asking the question as to why none of these sons seem to have fathers who are willing to help, rather than just deciding that other women will have to accept whatever the sons’ mums decide to do. Presumably 8 year olds aren’t going swimming in school/work hours so the SAHM argument doesn’t work.

The defeatist argument around men is kinda part of the problem. That it’s not even worth debating where they are in all this?

@kowari you can feel uncomfortable but ask yourself. Would you send your OWN Son in a changing room. At 6? Would you?

Everyone parents differently.

@AudacityBaby start a thread I'll be interested to read. Some people's partners work till 5 or 6. People do after school swimming. I think your argument doesn't work either. Your just derailing here

[quote AudacityBaby]@BunNcheese I think it’s worth asking the question as to why none of these sons seem to have fathers who are willing to help, rather than just deciding that other women will have to accept whatever the sons’ mums decide to do. Presumably 8 year olds aren’t going swimming in school/work hours so the SAHM argument doesn’t work.

The defeatist argument around men is kinda part of the problem. That it’s not even worth debating where they are in all this?[/quote]
Children often have lessons within working hours, when DS had them school age lessons started after school time.

[quote BunNcheese]@AudacityBaby start a thread I'll be interested to read. Some people's partners work till 5 or 6. People do after school swimming. I think your argument doesn't work either. Your just derailing here[/quote]
It’s derailing to ask where the fathers of these sons that have to use the womens’ facilities are?

@kowari yes I know that. What I'm saying is the dad may be at work STILL. You think I don't know people go swimming after school? Really

The dad would most likely be at work hence the mum taking the child.

[quote BunNcheese]@kowari you can feel uncomfortable but ask yourself. Would you send your OWN Son in a changing room. At 6? Would you?

Everyone parents differently.[/quote]
Yes, DS used the men's alone from 6, I waited outside. Like I said, I would feel a bit uncomfortable but would accept boys in the women's until age 8 as I understand not all boys are ready to go in the men's alone at 6 or 7.

[quote BunNcheese]@kowari yes I know that. What I'm saying is the dad may be at work STILL. You think I don't know people go swimming after school? Really

The dad would most likely be at work hence the mum taking the child.[/quote]
I was replying to @AudacityBaby.

The fact that it's a swimming lesson means that he's unlikely to be alone and vulnerable while getting changed, in my experience it's much more likely that the biggest danger is all the other unaccompanied boys messing around, stealing eachothers undies, and seeing who can do the loudest burp...

It’s highly inappropriate for boys and girls over 8 to change in primary school classrooms together. Better arrangements are needed, or children need to arrive dressed for PE on PE days.

As everyone else said 8 is us the age they need to use the mens. Dd has been changing herself since she was 5 is it different as she's a girl in the ladies? Im not sure ...

@Dithercats

Covid has taught us that our children are so much more capable than we think! DD swims twice a week, no parents allowed in the building once swimming resumed, at first kids came out in bathers and a onesie on top....now only swimmers in the changing rooms - boys & girls separately. These are from age 6+. Parents wait outside. The kids have it sorted 🤷‍♀️...just leave an extra 5 minutes!

Granted there are no ALN to consider here...but as a single mum to boys with ALN, after age 8 use the disabled, unisex room, or go home wet with onesie on top!
Girls age 8+ are entitled to privacy, as are their male peers.

If the children have the pool to themselves then making the changing room children only for the 8 year olds class may be a good idea for the OP to suggest. People with long hair could put on swimming caps outside the changing room and it would be like school swimming.

It’s derailing to ask where the fathers of these sons that have to use the womens’ facilities are?

Some of us are single parents, some take DC in the evening or on a weekend when the father is still at work. The working week doesn't end of Friday or at 5pn for some people!

More than anything it's moot point. OP states she's the one taking her DS, the whys and wherefores are nobody's business as OP shared as much as she feels comfortable with.

@Brefugee

Would people really be uncomfortable with an 8/9 year old boy in the women's changing rooms?

Now? It would depend if he stared. When I was 8/9/10... Yes. My DDs at 8/9/10...?definitely.they stopped going to karate because the boys kept bursting into the girls changing area
There are a lot of stats on why girls don't do sport. Changing facilities is one of them

They did WHAT??!!! And the club did nothing?

I have two sons, both with ASD. Aged 8 and 12.

I would not feel comfortable sending my youngest into the men’s alone due to vulnerability. He also cannot dry himself currently so needs help still. My 12yo I would feel more comfortable but he’s not reliable with getting changed and still needs some verbal support.

So we don’t go to pools that only have male/female changing. Out leisure centre has all cubicles (some double sized) in a large open space, as well as separate male and female communal changing space. So I go in a double cubicle with my youngest and my eldest goes in the cubicle next to me so I can talk to him still. If he has to go in one abit further away I will see him safely in and he waits in there until I’ve changed the youngest and then I can make sure he’s got everything to go in the locker/packed in his bag etc.

My Nuffield gym offers private swimming lessons for kids which I would have loved to take up but they only have male and female changing with cut off of 8yo. No separate disabled changing (disabled changing is within the male/female changing spaces). So I didn’t take them there and chose somewhere with the facilities I needed.

I don’t agree that changing poolside is an acceptable alternative - I don’t think that preserves their dignity trying to dry and take off wet clothes and put on dry clothes, on a wet floor, while trying to maintain privacy with a towel - tricky enough as an adult let alone a child. Also wouldn’t think it fair to make them travel home in wet trunks. I wouldn’t wear my wet costume home so I won’t make them do so.

I wouldn’t take them into female only spaces.

I also wouldn’t feel comfortable with my youngest in the men’s alone (if he was able) so wouldn’t take him somewhere where that was the only option.

I just only use pools where they have the facilities I need.