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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

999 replies

tailspin21 · 28/10/2021 08:25

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

OP posts:

IfNot · 28/10/2021 16:26

Does bring to mind Lord of the Flies tho..!

Sirzy · 28/10/2021 16:27

@Instagram

My daughter is very confident but also aware of a child having a disability. Having empathy for an eight year old boy with disabilities does not make her vulnerable to future exploitation. It makes her decent person. An eight year old boy is not comparable to a teenager or adult. I’m shocked at the attitude to young boys with disabilities!

What about the boy with a disability and his right to dignity though?

Why should a disabled boy be expected to forgo his own dignity getting changed in the women’s changing room? Why not allow him dignity and privacy by using the disabled facilties?

Everyone is entitled to privacy and dignity and the idea that bexayse someone is disabled they are less worthy of that is quite Sad.

julieca · 28/10/2021 16:27

@KurtWildeWitchOfTheWoods it is a developmental delay. It doesn't mean he won't catch up. And it is not an insult. But yes 8-year-olds would usually be able to dry and dress okayish. I mean they might need their tops straightened or they might not dry their feet, but if an 8 year old cant do this, I think it is fine for them to use a disabled changing room.

ImUninsultable · 28/10/2021 16:28

@IfNot

Have you got/had an 8 year old?

They do not want to change infront of each other.

I wish when people are told this, by people with degrees on child psychology, they would just listen instead of going, "oh well I dont think they'd mind."

They mind. Not all of course. It isnt a blanket statement but in general, they mind. They dont want to change infront of the opposite sex.

julieca · 28/10/2021 16:29

@Sirzy I 100% agree. I used to work with disabled teenagers. They are entitled to privacy and dignity. And you do that even with teenagers with profound disabilities who would not care themselves. Its a pretty basic tenet of care.

SnackSizeRaisin · 28/10/2021 16:29

This is a private gym. I think if you don't want him in the men's alone you should go to a different pool that can offer the facilities you want. I would tell him to change in a cubicle in the men's. That way he's pretty safe - it's only walking through that he would see anyone. Puberty can start at 8 and it's not appropriate for him to be in with women at that age IMO. It's highly unlikely anything would happen to him in the men's anyway. The 40 minute drive is probably 100 times more dangerous

DriftingBlue · 28/10/2021 16:30

My ASD dd developed serious, stubborn modesty at 5. It was entirely from her. It was definitely not something that came from us as it’s actually a huge hassle to have a child who is a bit behind on small motor skills have a very strong sense of privacy for changing and the bathroom. Walking to the changing cubicle past other woman was a struggle for her. A boy being in the changing room would have meant complete refusal to return to swimming lessons.

carolinesbaby · 28/10/2021 16:31

[quote Ozgirl75]@FreeBritnee, no need to miss swimming, you just get changed by the side of the pool.[/quote]
Hang on - so our sons are not entitled to safety (as a PP said, predatory males look for age and vulnerability, boys can be preyed on just as much as girls) or privacy and dignity, and should actually get changed in front of the whole world on the edge of the pool (our pool has massive glass windows looking out over the town park!)?
Come on. Girls should not have to give up their space to 'be kind', but nor should boys.
A family changing area is the ideal solution, but nowhere around here offers that. Our swimming lessons are at a local private school pool which a communal girls and a communal boys, and a very dated leisure centre. No fancy modern changing villages in the Shire.

Freddiefox · 28/10/2021 16:31

@Reachersloveinterest

It’s really a difficult situation but you and your husband have options.

I wouldn’t send my ds into the male changing rooms, but that doesn’t mean he gets to go in female.

Your dh helps.
Ds doesn’t go
Go where there are unisex changing
Change before and wrap in a towel

Encourage all the NAMAL’s to speak out when they see or hear inappropriate behaviour.

lottiegarbanzo · 28/10/2021 16:31

I think what a lot of posters are failing to understand, is that the expectation that the women's changing room is for women and girls (with under-8 boys permitted as a discretionary exception) is not about boys, it is about women and girls.

Women and girls saying 'No. Obey the rules.' to boys, men and their proxies, does not equate to it being our responsibility to solve their problems for them.

Work it out for yourselves - reading this thread would be a great place to start, there are a LOT of useful, practical suggestions. But just plopping on here going 'I have a problem so you have to solve it' is petulant and childish.

Rules is rules. You are not the exception. Deal with that like the grown up, the parent, you claim to be.

NoNayNever · 28/10/2021 16:32

The OP's pool currently has a 'men & boys only' changing room and a mixed sex changing room. Why not re-name the men/boys one as 'mixed sex' and have the women/girls as single sex?

The girls get to retain their privacy and the mothers of boys can use the mixed sex room without any feelings of awkwardness.

KurtWildeWitchOfTheWoods · 28/10/2021 16:33

[quote julieca]@KurtWildeWitchOfTheWoods it is a developmental delay. It doesn't mean he won't catch up. And it is not an insult. But yes 8-year-olds would usually be able to dry and dress okayish. I mean they might need their tops straightened or they might not dry their feet, but if an 8 year old cant do this, I think it is fine for them to use a disabled changing room.[/quote]
I've got 6 DC, four of whom are I've the age of 8 now, so I've definitely had some experience of that age group. I don't need this explaining to me. Thanks.

However, a child who still needs a bit of help dressing doesn't indicate developmental delay, and it certainly doesn't mean they're disabled as you said in your sweeping statement earlier.

Mouseonmychair · 28/10/2021 16:33

Why not re-name the men/boys one as 'mixed sex' and have the women/girls as single sex?

Men are entitled to their privacy too

ChloeCrocodile · 28/10/2021 16:34

IfNot, about 10 of years ago I was shocked when I had to deal with 13yo children in my class sending nudes and sharing ones they’d been sent. It is now one of the earliest PSHE topics for our year 7s, which I thought was pre-emptive. My primary teacher sister had to deal with it in her year 5 class last year. Children are depressingly and increasingly sexualised. Or perhaps we are just more aware than we used to be.

I don’t remember being uncomfortable getting changed in primary school, but we definitely had separate changing rooms from year 5 (so 9 years old) and I know at least one classmate started her periods that year. So it really isn’t surprising that 8yo want privacy.

It is probably child dependent too. I have one niece who would still strip in public at age 9 without caring if her mum didn’t stop her. But another niece didn’t want her dad helping in the bath from age 7. It’s okay for kids to have boundaries.

Instagram · 28/10/2021 16:35

Apparently there has been a rise in non binary children going swimming but the official records do not show such evidence;
Basically there is no rules as no one can refuse a child as they don’t believe them! Leisure pool staff are not going to challenge anyone in case they get it wrong and get threatened with legal proceedings.
Just as I could dress as a man and go in the men’s or my partner vice versa…
There are bigger fish to fry…

julieca · 28/10/2021 16:38

@ChloeCrocodile that does not surprise me at all. I remember boys that age and younger having porn mags.

julieca · 28/10/2021 16:40

@KurtWildeWitchOfTheWoods 8-year-old children in PE lessons are expected to dress themselves unless they have an SEN.
The person I was replying to said her son had a developmental delay.

IdLoveToButCantBeArsed · 28/10/2021 16:42

[quote grey12]@IdLoveToButCantBeArsed the father should go with the boy the first time to show him how to behave properly [/quote]
@grey12, don't worry, my post was very light-hearted and this happened many years ago now (making me feel rather old). After that initial time Ds was perfectly fine with no further mishaps.

Cailleach1 · 28/10/2021 16:44

If there is currently a mixed sex, and a men/boys only, they should alternate the single sex between males and females. One week one sex and one week the other sex.

Why should women and girls be the only ones disadvantaged?

Brefugee · 28/10/2021 16:48

It's our place to always give up our plaves

onelittlefrog · 28/10/2021 16:49

Would people really be uncomfortable with an 8/9 year old boy in the women's changing rooms?

I would be fine up until 10, and at that age would think he'd be OK on his own in the men's.

With an 8/9 year old I'd be more worried that they would forget to lock their locker or something!

mbosnz · 28/10/2021 16:50

Well, if men are the problem, why shouldn't men be the one's to sacrifice their privacy for the greater good?

Brefugee · 28/10/2021 16:53

Would people really be uncomfortable with an 8/9 year old boy in the women's changing rooms?

Now? It would depend if he stared. When I was 8/9/10... Yes. My DDs at 8/9/10...?definitely.they stopped going to karate because the boys kept bursting into the girls changing area
There are a lot of stats on why girls don't do sport. Changing facilities is one of them

IamJuliaJohnson · 28/10/2021 16:57

Our local pool now has an entirely unisex cubicled setup which actually does feel safer. Lots of people around. But before that, when DS was small, DH took him into the male changing room, to find two guys having sex in the communal shower. They weren’t even shy about it. It was 10am on a Sunday. Luckily DS was just a baby but I wouldn’t want any child to see that on a family swim. This wasn’t some dodgy/notorious toilet block in a shady part of town. This was the changing rooms of a university leisure centre.

AudacityBaby · 28/10/2021 17:04

I do wonder how there are so many people on here who have no other option but to take their sons into womens’ facilities. Where are the fathers? It reminds me of the way somehow mysteriously men can never take time off or do childcare or reduce hours or what have you.

Women expect other women to do more than they expect of their men. Here, they expect girls to bear the brunt of having married men who won’t go to the swimming pool and protect their own children from danger. Women learn this, young, and that’s what makes it so important that the question is turned back around on men. These are their children. Why aren’t they even interested in this situation? Because women are letting them off the hook, as other women can be relied upon to budge up and sort the problem out for them.

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