Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

@julieca

If its swimming lessons the male changing room will be full of families.

OP says that her child is usually the only boy in a group of 4/5. So it's not like the boys could get changed and wait together until they were all done.

numerous celebratory days for females
What days?

@LadyCleathStuart

So is your daughter going to be safer at night if my 8 year old DS is forced to change in a room of strange men? If he then becomes a victim it is ok because......well no sorry why is it ok?

Quote where I have said that. If you have to put words into someone’s mouth to get your point across then it doesn’t validate it. Teaching girls at a young age that they have to adapt to be safe teaches them that it is acceptable when they are older and it conditions them.

My local swimming baths only have 2 changing cubicles so everyone uses the benches. I am a teacher less than 2 miles away from that swimming baths, I don’t want boys coming in and seeing me when I change and then talking and joking about it with their friends, as much as you don’t believe it, that is what they do! I have nowhere else to change, that is my designated space. At no point have I said you need to feed your child to the lions, but why should my comfort and my daughters comfort be sacrificed? Something needs to be done to fix the situation, but it needs to fix it rather than just move it so that women and girls are impacted instead.

If the risk is to boys from men why shouldn't the mother go into the male changing with the child?

Oh, it's because it would make men uncomfortable, and men feeling uncomfortable is more important than pre teen and teen girls being made to feel uncomfortable.

@julieca

If its swimming lessons the male changing room will be full of families.

To be fair OP does say in her second post that her son is the only boy in the lessons, so I guess in her specific situation there may not be many other families in there. However she hasn’t really explained why she thinks her son is particularly vulnerable in a private gym (where the staff have details of everyone on the premises so not the most attractive hunting ground for predators) with her waiting outside.

At a push I can see that a large changing room with nooks and crannies at a quiet time with a reputation for being full of dodgy characters might be a bit less ideal to send an 8 year-old into alone (probably more for him getting his locker money nicked than being sexually assaulted) but you assess each risk on the particular circumstances and her scenario is not one that screams out “threat to children” to me.

@BananaPB fair enough I missed that. I would ask the swimming instructor the best thing to do then. So is the pool only used for the swimming lesson with no one else having access. in which case there will be no one else in the male changing room? Then OP could go in there with her son.

(I read this as@Instagramsaying this because a teenager who was unable to use the men’s changing rooms alone would have a disability. She said “unable to” not “doesn’t want to”. A teenager without a disability can use the men’s changing rooms alone*
I hope that's what was meant, but sadly on here it's not uncommon to hear 'just use the accessible toilet' as a solution. Just look at this thread, people seem to think that girls should put up and shut up because some mums want to bring their pre-teen boys into the women's changing rooms. Landgrabbing isn't OK.

If a child needs to use an accessible toilet for accessibility reasons then they need to use an accessible toilet/changing.

If it's a case of mum doesn't want to send them into the men's/mum would rather be there to help their 10 year old get dressed then that's not a 'can't' situation and shouldn't be dressed up as not able to.

why is the default that girls budge up to allow boys in the changing room rather than mums going in to the men’s?

Because an 8 year old boy and his mum going into the women’s is a lot less inappropriate than an adult woman going in to the wrong sex room.

Also there would potentially be more risk to the adult mum and boy going in to a room naked men. There is no risk to girls and women from a mum and 8 yr old boy discretely using the changing room.

It’s common sense and harm reduction. Not ideal.

I think it's difficult OP. I can see the worry as he is still a child.
In the airport I walked through the men's toilet and sorry I'm his mum! DS was around 4.... but I can also see the flip side of women/girls not feeling comfortable as well.

Maybe changing at home is the best idea.

Nicking one set of facilities not designated to them just isn't enough, apparently.

Totally this and women wonder why all men grow up to so entitled and abusive of women (and others).

@BunNcheese

I think it's difficult OP. I can see the worry as he is still a child. In the airport I walked through the men's toilet and sorry I'm his mum! DS was around 4.... but I can also see the flip side of women/girls not feeling comfortable as well.

Maybe changing at home is the best idea.

Why did you not take a 4 year old into the ladies toilet?

@IfNot I am talking about boys not men. I think they are underrepresented in regards to safety when compared to girls. It then transpires overall in society that safety and personal value to be of more privilege to girls.
I am not talking adulthood just childhood.

@Instagram

Eventually changing rooms will all be updated to be more accessible and appropriate. Until then I am sure each and every mother will do what they feel they need to do to keep their children safe. Whether that be stating their child is non-binary or disclosing a younger age. People objecting obviously have little understanding and compassion of those more vulnerable than themselves. Life should provide equal opportunities to everyone with safety being a priority. If girls feel uncomfortable they can use a cubicle. They should be told the reason why a boy is in the changing room is to keep them safe. Obviously when the boy reaches teenage years they could use disabled facilities if they are unable to go into the male changing rooms alone.

If I were to summarize what you wrote it would be “girls should move or accept being uncomfortable to accommodate boys”.

That is definitely not the message I want my daughter or any girl to receive.

No girl should ever be encouraged to compromise her own safety or boundaries.

Annoying not to have family changing rooms. But I’d probably start thinking about him getting to the pool in his swimming stuff, with a onesie or something to go home in.

I wouldn’t want to send my 8 year old into the men’s changing rooms on his own.

Or tell your useless husband that it doesn’t work for him not to come anymore

Gyms should have family or unisex changing rooms. Girls should be comfortable in the women’s changing rooms, but boys have the right to be kept safe too.
In our gym the age limit is up to 8. I often see older boys with their mums I think (hard to tell age sometimes) and personally don’t care.
There is an area with cubicles and very possible to keep yourself to yourself anyway.

@CatJumperTwat

No they don’t matter if there is a safeguarding risk for boys. I’d rather my daughter put up with discomfort than another child endure what my son went through.

Girls should not have to suffer because what a man did to your son. Please protect your girl.

Protect your girl? It's highly unlikely that a boy with his mum is going to sexually assault the young girls in the changing rooms!

[quote Instagram]@IfNot I am talking about boys not men. I think they are underrepresented in regards to safety when compared to girls. It then transpires overall in society that safety and personal value to be of more privilege to girls.
I am not talking adulthood just childhood.[/quote]
No. What actually happens is that women take responsibility for the safety of children and men abdicate it (in general). Men need to step up here and start demanding safe spaces for their sons and other boys and they need to be present in places where boys can be attacked or assaulted making sure it doesn't happen to any children.

In the same way as women do. They have been hiding behind women for too long and it is really far beyond time for them to step up.

It is perfectly possible for a boy to leer sexually at a girl.

@HaveringWavering I normally do DS was busting and I think he wanted to go to the men's! Solo traveller mum I was rushing.

[quote Instagram]@IfNot I am talking about boys not men. I think they are underrepresented in regards to safety when compared to girls. It then transpires overall in society that safety and personal value to be of more privilege to girls.
I am not talking adulthood just childhood.[/quote]
Perhaps it's because women have advocated for girls so conventions like children being split for PE changing has become more widespread? (I am old enough to have done PE in knickers and vest - something that my kids can't believe)

I suspect that family changing rooms and baby change facilities came about because women asked businesses to install them.

@BunNcheese don’t you see that a girl can be made to feel uncomfortable without being assaulted, or fearing that she would be assaulted. Assault is not the problem here for the girls (though there has been a lot of discussion about the chances of boys being assaulted in the men’s).

It’s just about a basic right to single-sex privacy that needs to be respected.

Totally this and women wonder why all men grow up to so entitled and abusive of women (and others).
This entirely.
It's the drip drip drip of entitlement to boys and the drip drip drip that tells girls to put up, shut up, and have their boundaries ignored.

Mum feels uncomfortable sending boy into men's changing = "don't worry DS, you don't have to go in there. Come and have access to women and girls spaces. Who cares about your female peers feeling uncomfortable? Who cares if girls your age feel put off sport and swimming because they don't want to change in front of boys? If they are uncomfortable then the girls should change somewhere else or use one of the limited cubicles. The most important thing here is you realise that what you want comes first and if girls feel uncomfortable then they need to suck it up, smile and be kind".

Girl feels uncomfortable having boys changing into the female changing = "don't be so up tight, boys aren't a threat. Boys are more at risk in the men's than you are by having a boy in the female changing. Can't you cover up? Can't you use a cubicle? Can't you put a onesie on and then get changed somewhere else so that the boy can change in the female changing? You're so selfish wanting to feel comfortable getting changed with fellow girls/women. Why can't you just be nice about it. Either smile nicely and realise your boundaries and feelings don't matter, or kindly remove yourself from the situation so that the boy can have access to the female spaces"

@julieca

It is perfectly possible for a boy to leer sexually at a girl.

There was a recent thread where a 8yo girl was told off for taking too long to change for PE. It had taken her a long time because the boys were trying to look at her underwear.

[quote HaveringWavering]@BunNcheese don’t you see that a girl can be made to feel uncomfortable without being assaulted, or fearing that she would be assaulted. Assault is not the problem here for the girls (though there has been a lot of discussion about the chances of boys being assaulted in the men’s).

It’s just about a basic right to single-sex privacy that needs to be respected.[/quote]
Did you not read my post where I said I ca see it from both sides. I even suggested that OP sons maybe should get changed at home. Christ!

I have a Son so I can relate to OP. You can read some views are based upon have girls and not boys.

I do find it curious the way in which the answer to boys being unsafe is that girls give up their spaces (and potentially remain home), whereas the answer to girls/women being unsafe is that girls/women give up their spaces (and potentially remain home).

Almost as if there's some sort of societal common denominator...