Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

JFC. Nobody is suggesting sending boys into a nest of pedophiles.
We just don't want them in the girl's area. It's not rocket science

@Badassbreastfeeder85

I wonder how many mothers of 8 year old girls would be happy to send them in to the male changing room,there are cubicles so she won't have to walk round naked and their dad's are male ,no just 8year old boys who should be exposed to the risk of rape/assault

You know that the female changing rooms are FOR girls and women, right? They have a right to be there. Boys below the age of eight are permitted to be there - there is a difference.

but you're happy to have your possibly going into puberty 10 year old in a changing room with boys feeling uncomfortable so...

Why would they be uncomfortable, my daughter can change in a cubicle.

Our gym would require him to use the men’s
I can appreciate it’s a long drive so he wants to take his suit off, but this is an easy fix.
Bring him with his suit on under sweats.
After the pool, have him go into a cubicle in the men’s locker room, remove the wet suit and put on the sweats, then come right back out. He shouldn’t be in there for more than 5 minutes and you can stand right outside the entrance door.

If you are worried you can even do the thing where you loudly announce that you are standing right outside the entrance. If you are super worried after about 2 minutes you can do a call and response from the door to confirm everything is ok and remind everyone that you are on alert. I think both of these are overkill, but I’ve seen it done and I don’t begrudge any parent who does it.

@HaveringWavering

I find it really really sad that so many people think that a men’s changing room in a swimming pool is “just not safe” for an eight year old boy whose Mum is outside. Do you really believe that there is a paedophile lurking round every corner, and that they would prey on a young boy in full view of other men? What a sad, paranoid perspective in society. I blame the Sun.

It is rare, but it happens.

Dodgy and dangerous men do target areas where people will be in a state of undress. A man was in court where I live for filming kids changing on a beach using a camera in his SHOE, ffs.

Clandestine filming is becoming a huge problem as the technology gets smaller. No, I definitely would not want an 8 yo boy changing alone in a room full of strange men, and I think that's reasonable caution, not paranoia.

An unaccompanied 8 year old alone in a changing room full of naked men
I very much doubt the other 'naked men' would just stand back and ignore an 8 yo being abused

I am disabled and tend to change in the communal area as any cubicles are usually too small for me to manage in. If your 12 year old boy laughs at my disabled body, I will complain to the staff.

@saisagesizzle the National Crime Agency’s own website says:

“Most contact abuse continues to happen within families, or is inflicted by acquaintances or people in positions of trust.”

I would and have challenged boys of 8+ in changing rooms with 'are you a girl?' to try and embarass them into changing in their own changing rooms
What??

@Youarethecurry yes clandestine filming is a huge issue and happens with parents there. That is why it is done clandestine.

Why would I send my daughter to men's changing room? She can change in the changing room meant for her, that is supposedly single-sex. But apparently she can now expect to encounter naked teenage and pre-teen boys there, whose mothers believe this is the solution most comfortable for those boys.

surely by 8 , your son is asking you why he is getting changed in the female room? what do you tell him that is not going to make him feel bad about the sex he was born into ?

It's either 8 or 10 at my gym. To be honest I think if parents don't want to send their sons to the men's changing then they need to use family changing, unisex changing or find somewhere that does. It's not appropriate to expect girls to have their boundaries eroded by having older boys in the women's changing.

Women's changing is just that, not a 'anyone who doesn't want to change in the men's' facility.

DS is only just 6 but when he is 8 I would say he is definitely too old to use the ladies' areas with me. If that poses issues for us that is for me and DH to solve.

Women and girls are not there as a protective entity - we have our own rights and these need to be respected

I would say eighth birthday at the latest to go into the men's. If the child is older with a disability so can't go alone at that age then use the disabled changing room. I'm a single parent and DS went in the men's from six.

@AlwaysLatte

I would and have challenged boys of 8+ in changing rooms with 'are you a girl?' to try and embarass them into changing in their own changing rooms What??

Yea that was awful. Are you a girl is a little to close to “you throw like a girl” type comments. Using being compared to a girl as a tool of embarrassment. Not cool. Also, unless it was like an obviously older child there’s so many better ways to manage that without using a misogynistic insult to embarrass an 8 year old.

The answer is clearly that there needs to be more family/unisex changing rooms, and single sex ones for those who wish to use them.

Unfortunately that's not going to happen overnight.

In the absence of appropriate family changing provision, why is the default that girls budge up to allow boys in the changing room rather than mums going in to the men’s?

Are you being literal when you say 'budge up' there? Because that makes it sound like you think girls are getting budged out of the way to make space for boys, which clearly isn't the case.

Also I've been the mum who takes my DS into the men's changing room. Doesn't bother me at all. But when I also have my DDs with me I know they'd be uncomfortable in the men's changing room so I consider their feelings and we go in the women's. Some of us have children of both sexes, and are single parents, and a decision has to be made whereby ALL our DC feel safe. Unfortunately, I can't do that and also worry about other peoples comfort.

Are you a girl is a little to close to “you throw like a girl” type comments. Using being compared to a girl as a tool of embarrassment.
I think an 8 yr old girl would be equally embarassed at being asked if she was a boy in a male only environment

I would find a more family-friendly pool. Neither taking him into ladies, nor letting him unsupervised in mens' is appropriate.

My ds use to wear his swimmers there slip off his tee and slides which I locked away with my stuff then I'd give him his very large towel, think dry robe and he would head straight away into the car. I'd do minimal and sort ourselves out at home.

@Bearnecessity

My ds use to wear his swimmers there slip off his tee and slides which I locked away with my stuff then I'd give him his very large towel, think dry robe and he would head straight away into the car. I'd do minimal and sort ourselves out at home.

A simple solution, yet there are women here arguing that our hard won single sex spaces should be open to males.

Are you being literal when you say 'budge up' there? Because that makes it sound like you think girls are getting budged out of the way to make space for boys, which clearly isn't the case.

I wasn’t meaning that literally at the time. However, there are girls who will self-exclude from swimming if the only changing option has their boy classmates in it. There are girls who wouldn’t be allowed for religious reasons. There are primary aged girls who have been sexually harassed or assaulted by primary aged boys who would simply be unable to use the space due to past trauma. There are girls who would simply be uncomfortable with it. So in a way it is literal too.

Thanks for answering my question tho. If every mother who took older boys into the incorrect changing room was prepared to use the men’s 50% of the time it’d still be a problem, but it would be one which at least recognised that it isn’t always on girls to give up their privacy.

My DD used to just put a tracksuit over her costume after swimming lessons and get changed at home. Because the open women's changing area was full of the boys from her class/school getting changed where their mums could watch them, and there was no way on god's green earth that she would get changed in front of them.

So, to allow young women the space to which they are fully entitled to get changed in dignity and privacy, I would suggest you do similar to my DD, and put your son into a onesie or tracksuit over his costume, and take him home to change.

If every mother who took older boys into the incorrect changing room was prepared to use the men’s 50% of the time it’d still be a problem, but it would be one which at least recognised that it isn’t always on girls to give up their privacy.

Also, miraculously, many problems are suddenly solvable the second they start inconveniencing men ..

Eventually changing rooms will all be updated to be more accessible and appropriate. Until then I am sure each and every mother will do what they feel they need to do to keep their children safe.
Whether that be stating their child is non-binary or disclosing a younger age.
People objecting obviously have little understanding and compassion of those more vulnerable than themselves.
Life should provide equal opportunities to everyone with safety being a priority.
If girls feel uncomfortable they can use a cubicle. They should be told the reason why a boy is in the changing room is to keep them safe.
Obviously when the boy reaches teenage years they could use disabled facilities if they are unable to go into the male changing rooms alone.