Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

What I won't teach them is that women's rights are more important than theirs.

And I won't put their physical safety below someone's feelings.

Absolutely. I’m shocked by some of the responses. There should be unisex private spaces for everyone ideally. The gym should sort that out. But in the absence of that why are people people saying this is about prioritising the privacy of girls over the actual safety of an 8 year old boy?

It is possible to be discrete in a changing room and most mothers and their children can be trusted to manage the situation appropriately.

But surely of there are cubicles he won't be wandering around naked in the female changing rooms,my son is 9 and I wouldn't send him in to a male changing room alone where he could be assaulted or have adult men exposing themselves to him, no thanks

HaveringWavering You’re talking bullshit and it’s not what we’ve been told on our journey at all.

this convo makes me glad that my local pool has completely unisex/family changing. Huge cubicles as well as individual so no one is getting changed infont of anyone they dont know Its why I moved my pools to different swim lessons

julieca You really don’t know what you’re talking about. Just stop.

@LadyCleathStuart

Yeah lets tell all victims of stranger abuse that they were just unlucky so deal with it eh.

How do you make that leap?

If they are getting changed for a swimming class , surely there are other boys changing too, so they are not alone.
Sorry but male changing is for males, female changing is for females (with a goodwill exception for young children under 8). If you cant deal with that then dont swim. I would and have challenged boys of 8+ in changing rooms with 'are you a girl?' to try and embarass them into chenging in their own changing rooms

it is a mistake to equate documented admissions of being sexually attracted to children with the risk of a man actually assaulting a child, which is what is relevant here.

It's partly about opportunity, isn't it? If you send your young child into an unsupervised situation where there are likely to be men attracted to children, then you're creating an opportunity for your child to be assaulted. Whether or not the assault actually occurs will then depend on various factors (e.g. is there anyone else in the changing-room?) which you as a mother waiting outside can't control.

And the statistic comes from the National Crime Agency.

@Fa11Forward

HaveringWavering You’re talking bullshit and it’s not what we’ve been told on our journey at all.

With respect @Fa11Forward why would the response to your son’s situation involve retrospective assessment of the risk of something happening to him? if you are being told that the risk was very high then that sounds like someone trying to blame you for allowing him to go in alone and that is terrible.

It is possible to be discrete in a changing room and most mothers and their children can be trusted to manage the situation appropriately.

I mean, I'm reading some of the mothers here demanding the right to take their sons into female changing rooms up to the point where they know that they are going through puberty so I'm not going to say that these women are the best judges of appropriate behaviour or overly concerned about women and girls, necessarily.

Jesus, I can’t believe people are on here minimising abuse of children and scoffing that it hardly ever happens.. this is just anecdotal and I don’t have links to extensive research, so my apologies, but I grew up in the 80s when safeguarding wasn’t heard of, at least not where I lived (!) and all of my brothers had near miss encounters with nonces, from attempted assault in public toilets to trying to get them in cars. I had near misses too (thank God) but child abuse is not something that only happens to girls. Tell that to the victims of children’s homes that were basically set up as paedophile rings. Or to the victims of priests, or football coaches.
It is very sad that women are left to worry about the impact of male sickness and violence but that’s just reality unfortunately.
An 8 year old boy is a child, and ALL children are “precious” so the solution has to be better than minimising traumatic abuse of boys and shrugging.
I DO care about the privacy and dignity of girls, and I remember how awful some boys could be at 11 or do, but 8 is little.
And I say this as a card carrying man hating harpy btw.

@BananaPB

It really wouldn't bother me if he was up to age 12 in the women's changing rooms

Would 12 year old you really feel the same ?

no!!

I would and have challenged boys of 8+ in changing rooms with 'are you a girl?' to try and embarass them into changing in their own changing rooms

How awful. You'd do that to an eight year old. You must be some piece of work.

That wasn’t what I meant at all, just stop.

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

What I won't teach them is that women's rights are more important than theirs.

And I won't put their physical safety below someone's feelings.

Absolutely. I’m shocked by some of the responses. There should be unisex private spaces for everyone ideally. The gym should sort that out. But in the absence of that why are people people saying this is about prioritising the privacy of girls over the actual safety of an 8 year old boy?

It is possible to be discrete in a changing room and most mothers and their children can be trusted to manage the situation appropriately.

In the absence of appropriate family changing provision, why is the default that girls budge up to allow boys in the changing room rather than mums going in to the men’s?

I know I’m banging my head against a brick wall here, but it is really important to question this. The current situation may well not be safe for boys. But you don’t fix that by taking away what girls have and need (single sex changing rooms).

Why not speak to the staff?

@IfNot

Jesus, I can’t believe people are on here minimising abuse of children and scoffing that it hardly ever happens.. this is just anecdotal and I don’t have links to extensive research, so my apologies, but I grew up in the 80s when safeguarding wasn’t heard of, at least not where I lived (!) and all of my brothers had near miss encounters with nonces, from attempted assault in public toilets to trying to get them in cars. I had near misses too (thank God) but child abuse is not something that only happens to girls. Tell that to the victims of children’s homes that were basically set up as paedophile rings. Or to the victims of priests, or football coaches. It is very sad that women are left to worry about the impact of male sickness and violence but that’s just reality unfortunately. An 8 year old boy is a child, and ALL children are “precious” so the solution has to be better than minimising traumatic abuse of boys and shrugging. I DO care about the privacy and dignity of girls, and I remember how awful some boys could be at 11 or do, but 8 is little. And I say this as a card carrying man hating harpy btw.

Yes. Child abuse is not some urban myth.

@IfNot

Jesus, I can’t believe people are on here minimising abuse of children and scoffing that it hardly ever happens.. this is just anecdotal and I don’t have links to extensive research, so my apologies, but I grew up in the 80s when safeguarding wasn’t heard of, at least not where I lived (!) and all of my brothers had near miss encounters with nonces, from attempted assault in public toilets to trying to get them in cars. I had near misses too (thank God) but child abuse is not something that only happens to girls. Tell that to the victims of children’s homes that were basically set up as paedophile rings. Or to the victims of priests, or football coaches. It is very sad that women are left to worry about the impact of male sickness and violence but that’s just reality unfortunately. An 8 year old boy is a child, and ALL children are “precious” so the solution has to be better than minimising traumatic abuse of boys and shrugging. I DO care about the privacy and dignity of girls, and I remember how awful some boys could be at 11 or do, but 8 is little. And I say this as a card carrying man hating harpy btw.

You really can’t see the difference between abuse that occurs in children’ homes and religious institutions and a random assault on a boy getting changed for swimming? Let’s put it this way, I would happily send my son into the men’s changing rooms alone aged 8 but I definitely won’t be sending him off to be an altar boy!

I would and have challenged boys of 8+ in changing rooms with 'are you a girl?' to try and embarass them into changing in their own changing rooms

If you have an issue with this, take it up with their parents. Completely inappropriate when it's the parent who will be making the decision on where they change.

Also, my DS is very tall (4 but in 6+ clothes). I'm sure that by the time he's 6, he'll look like an 8yo. If you tried to tell me I should send a 6yo alone into the male changing-rooms where he could wander off to the pool and drown without me noticing, I'd tell you where to go.

I think try the suggestions of being all cha ged and going home in joggers. Or, after the session, if there is one, change in a poolside toilet cubicle.

I'd explain to staff and say he is uncomfortable and ask if there is a single disabled unit he could use - with the proviso that it is not going to be needed for someone else.

I'd also see if a mate of his could come swimming, so that it would be two of them in men's changing room.

Yeah he shouldn't be in the ladies changing rooms all

@PleasantBirthday

It is possible to be discrete in a changing room and most mothers and their children can be trusted to manage the situation appropriately.

I mean, I'm reading some of the mothers here demanding the right to take their sons into female changing rooms up to the point where they know that they are going through puberty so I'm not going to say that these women are the best judges of appropriate behaviour or overly concerned about women and girls, necessarily.

I totally agree.

You really can’t see the difference between abuse that occurs in children’ homes and religious institutions and a random assault on a boy getting changed for swimming?

Did you read what I wrote? I have 4 brothers and each of them had scary encounters in public toilets, pool changing rooms, random men in parks, men in cars. I mentioned priests etc to show that men are indeed attracted to little boys, often on an organised scale, but random opportunists exist too in far greater numbers than you think.

HaveringWavering It’s as equally bloody devastating.

I wonder how many mothers of 8 year old girls would be happy to send them in to the male changing room,there are cubicles so she won't have to walk round naked and their dad's are male ,no just 8year old boys who should be exposed to the risk of rape/assault