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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

999 replies

tailspin21 · 28/10/2021 08:25

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

OP posts:
ChloeCrocodile · 28/10/2021 14:16

An unaccompanied 8 year old alone in a changing room full of naked men or girls in a changing room with their mothers and an 8 year old boy accompanied by his mother. Hmm I know which every mother should go with without question.

You have created a false binary here. The choices are (at least)

  • boy into men’s alone
  • boy into women’s with mother
  • boy into men’s with mother
julieca · 28/10/2021 14:16

@SausageSizzle four of those links are to cases abroad. Nobody is saying it never happens. Just as nobody is saying children are never abducted from their own house. But it is rare.
It is terrible for children it happens to, but it is rare.
I would send children in to a changing room at 8 if there were other families about. And being honest when I took my kids swimming sessions and changing rooms were always busy. Just as I have sent boys to use public toilets by themselves in theme parks or similar from 7 years old. But not a quiet toilet or changing room no.
Yes there are lots of paedophiles but they tend to target children they already know.

Fa11Forward · 28/10/2021 14:16

It happens and toilets and changing rooms are a magnet for predators. They also Dan have very isolated areas.It happening once and devastating the life of a single child is enough. Dismissing child abuse is abhorrent and makes sufferers feel like crap, why me?

Brefugee · 28/10/2021 14:18

You're not reading my posts. So carry on in your delusional way. But one more time: I am not advocating FOR ANY CHILD INCLUDING GIRLS to be put in danger.
I am asking for:
a) girl's privacy to be respected
AND
b) a solution for boys that doesn't impinge on a

How are you not getting that?

SausageSizzle · 28/10/2021 14:19

@HaveringWavering.

This is the estimate of the National Crime Agency:

It is estimated that around 750,000 men in the UK have a sexual interest in children, with 250,000 being interested in children under the age of 12.

So no, it's not the majority of men obviously, but neither is it a vanishingly small number of men.

julieca · 28/10/2021 14:19

Nobody is dismissing child abuse. But people are still unrealistic about the real dangers. And I have never been in a changing room with isolated areas unless it is a large changing village such as Centreparcs. They are usually designed not to have isolated areas.

Instagram · 28/10/2021 14:19

@SausageSizzle So glad you have highlighted the dangers in a factual way that may help others see the realisation of the dangers.
There has been a lot of media attention in other countries to this issue too.
In recent years there has been a major issue with locations with a high number of refugees and there was an education programme set up to help prevent this.
Hopefully more unisex cubicle changing will be introduced to elevate this issue.

LadyCleathStuart · 28/10/2021 14:20

So 8 year old boys are a risk to women in a female changing room.

But grown men are not a risk to 8 year old boys in a male changing room.

Hmmm??

Fa11Forward · 28/10/2021 14:21

The paedophile who abused my child didn’t. He hung around in a toilet and waited for a child he didn’t know. My son was unlucky enough to be that child. It was never reported and came out in therapy years later after struggles with depression and anxiety. A lot of abuse doesn’t get reported as there is often shame involved but yeah I’ll tell him the bullshit printed on here about abuse. Sure he’ll feel a whole lot better.Hmm

julieca · 28/10/2021 14:21

No 8, 9 and 10 year old boys stop 8 year old girls using changing rooms.

HaveringWavering · 28/10/2021 14:21

[quote julieca]@SausageSizzle four of those links are to cases abroad. Nobody is saying it never happens. Just as nobody is saying children are never abducted from their own house. But it is rare.
It is terrible for children it happens to, but it is rare.
I would send children in to a changing room at 8 if there were other families about. And being honest when I took my kids swimming sessions and changing rooms were always busy. Just as I have sent boys to use public toilets by themselves in theme parks or similar from 7 years old. But not a quiet toilet or changing room no.
Yes there are lots of paedophiles but they tend to target children they already know.[/quote]
The risk to the boy of dying in a car crash on the way home from swimming is significantly higher than the risk of him being assaulted in the men’s changing room. But these parents don’t think twice about driving with their kids in the car even though crashes do, sadly, sometimes happen.

julieca · 28/10/2021 14:22

@Fa11Forward I am sorry about your son. But you know full well that nobody is doubting what happened.
And you really think a lot of women on this thread were not abused as children? Child abuse is very common sadly.

Brefugee · 28/10/2021 14:22

Here it is again. A clear fuck girls

Well I would be and insisting that mums of boys were made the priority in family rooms. If they had taken my money I would demand safe changing and wouldn’t be leaving the women’s until they provided it.

Spikeyball · 28/10/2021 14:22

If appropriate facilities are not available at that pool then you will have to use a different pool. Neither of the most local pools have appropriate facilities for ds who is disabled so we cannot use them.

LadyCleathStuart · 28/10/2021 14:23

Yeah lets tell all victims of stranger abuse that they were just unlucky so deal with it eh.

Fa11Forward · 28/10/2021 14:23

Toilets and changing rooms contain isolated corners and aren’t necessarily in isolated areas. The one my son was abused in was in a busy city centre and I was outside. Just don’t risk it. It isn’t worth it.If it seems a risk then it probably is.

PiglingBlonde · 28/10/2021 14:23

@KatharinaRosalie

It really wouldn't bother me if he was up to age 12 in the women's changing rooms

Have you asked how 12-year old girls feel about that?

Don't be silly, @KatharinaRosalie, girls should know that they have to move up to keep boys safe. If that means that they have to give up swimming, that is more changing room space for the boys who need to know how to swim. Girls don't, obviously.
julieca · 28/10/2021 14:23

@LadyCleathStuart and again no one is saying that.

BananaPB · 28/10/2021 14:24

@Fa11Forward

Well I would be and insisting that mums of boys were made the priority in family rooms. If they had taken my money I would demand safe changing and wouldn’t be leaving the women’s until they provided it.
You can band together with the dads of girls.

Are there any unisex changing rooms where mums with boys aren't an equal priority to other users ?

SausageSizzle · 28/10/2021 14:25

@Instagram. Thank you.

I think it's important for people to know that, if you go swimming regularly and allow your child to change alone in the men's changing-rooms, statistically it is very likely that they will come across a paedophile with a sexual interest in children at some point. This is just based on the figures for the general population and ignores the fact that paedophiles will congregate in these areas.

Clearly, not all boys who change in changing-rooms with paedophiles will be assaulted. There must still be (i) opportunity, and (ii) the paedophile making a conscious choice to act on their urges.

But I don't understand why everyone on here is saying that the risk of there being a paedophile in the men's changing-room is tiny. It's not.

SausageSizzle · 28/10/2021 14:26

@HaveringWavering. The risk to the boy of dying in a car crash on the way home from swimming is significantly higher than the risk of him being assaulted in the men’s changing room. But these parents don’t think twice about driving with their kids in the car even though crashes do, sadly, sometimes happen.

Statistics please?

BananaPB · 28/10/2021 14:27

It really wouldn't bother me if he was up to age 12 in the women's changing rooms

Would 12 year old you really feel the same ?

julieca · 28/10/2021 14:28

I used to sit in a monthly meeting in my Local Authority whose remit was to look at sexual exploitation in public. I bloody know what I am talking about.
We looked at amongst other things, children sexually abused or raped in public toilets - including unreported but suspected cases with predators seen hanging about. Virtually all of them were of children in care or vulnerable either groomed to meet in public toilets or being "paid" for sexual activity. And actually, it angers me that in reality, few people care about these very vulnerable children.
This always led to closures of public toilets. They were always either on parks that were isolated at certain times, or in bus stations.

Do you want to protect your kids? Its your dad, your uncle, your partner, your brother and your friend who are more likely to be the real risk. But most people ignore that and call it man hating.

Instagram · 28/10/2021 14:31

I think the issue is it’s not every boy just ones that are too vulnerable to go alone in the men’s.
Be fair most boys want to go in the men’s and have some independence it’s only really those with disabilities or vulnerabilities.
I think maybe the signs could say they advise over eights to use men’s but it is not mandatory.
It’s about being inclusive and not preventing those from feeling they can’t go swimming due to accessibility.

HaveringWavering · 28/10/2021 14:31

[quote SausageSizzle]@HaveringWavering.

This is the estimate of the National Crime Agency:

It is estimated that around 750,000 men in the UK have a sexual interest in children, with 250,000 being interested in children under the age of 12.

So no, it's not the majority of men obviously, but neither is it a vanishingly small number of men.[/quote]
@SausageSizzle I’m not clicking on a Daily Mail link (surely you can’t be serious about putting that forward?) and the Independent one is behind a paywall. I will look at the report separately, but for starters I think that it is a mistake to equate documented admissions of being sexually attracted to children with the risk of a man actually assaulting a child, which is what is relevant here. Of the ones who do act on it, take out from the equation the ones who prey on children known to them in families because the opportunity is there. The actual numbers of men who pose a risk to boys aged 8 and above in public swimming pool changing rooms will still be vanishingly small.