Page 25 | Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

tailspin21 · 2021-10-28T07:25:22+00:00

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them! So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

Whatinthelord · 28/10/2021 13:52

At the risk of being controversial, I do feel an obvious solution is being missed here.Simply suggest your son identify as a girl during his lessons.
Job done.

Obviously that’s me being flippant. However I do think this may cease to be an issue, or will evolve into a different issue over the next decade or so. We’ll either have all mixed sex spaces\provision or people accessing single gendered provision based on what space makes them most comfortable.

AlwaysLatte · 28/10/2021 13:54

I know this isn't the answer but when we go swimming in the river we have these oversized ponchos that you can discreetly change underneath without revealing anything. But it doesn't really answer the question. Like I say we used to use family changing rooms, however the family is configured, which I think should be everywhere. I love the way the OP lit a firework and threw it into the room before disappearing!

FreakinFrankNFurter · 28/10/2021 13:54

@TirednWorried

Why isn't the solution to ask the gym to have a member of staff in the mens or for mum to supervise changing in the mens?

Because you are asking the gym to magic up the money to employ someone extra.
Having a woman in the mens changing room is the same as having a man in the female changing!!!

No one is talking about having a man in the women's changing rooms, they're talking about a pre-pebuscent 8 year old boy! That is not at all the same as a man!

FreakinFrankNFurter · 28/10/2021 13:59

The issue as I see it is that we shouldn't have to choose between the comfort and dignity of girls and the safety of boys. There shouldn't have to be a choice, because facilities that can't accommodate both aren't fit for purpose.

This is yet another example of things being set up in a way that ignores the needs of girls and women

This. Except I think it ignores the needs of women and children

As always it's women trying to work out how best to keep women and children safe, when it's men who are the problem

HaveringWavering · 28/10/2021 14:00

@Fa11Forward

My son was sexually abused in a men’s toilet I was standing outside of. He is still getting therapy for it at 18 and his life has been pretty much turned upside down with anxiety and depression because of it. Always, always go with your gut instinct as a mum and forget everything else. Don’t bother with these threads.

I am sorry this happened to your son. However it does not alter the statistics, which people massively overstate. Children get killed, injured and traumatised in all sorts of day to day situations but we have to get on with life and assess risk in a sensible way.

Fa11Forward · 28/10/2021 14:01

YetAnotherSpartacus Yep when you’ve lived through having a child destroyed by sexual abuse then yeah you do say fuck discomfort when safety is involved. An unaccompanied 8 year old alone in a changing room full of naked men or girls in a changing room with their mothers and an 8 year old boy accompanied by his mother. Hmm I know which every mother should go with without question.

5foot5 · 28/10/2021 14:01

What do dads with daughters do in places like this?

Several years ago we used to take our DD to swimming lessons in a small local leisure centre. Both the male and female changing rooms were communal, i.e. no cubicles, and I think the cut-off age was 7. However, there was a family changing room. This was also communal but the signage made it clear that it was intended for parents assisting their children to change.

This should have been sufficient for lessons since only children were getting in to the water so no adults would be changing at the same time.

Mostly I took DD in to the female room, however, occasionally DH took her and obviously used the family room.

One of the families who were regularly there at the same time as us had a boy of about 8 and a girl who must have been at least 13, she was definitely "developing". I always saw the mum sat in the viewing area talking to her friend and leaving the children to get themselves ready. Given their ages I assumed that they were old enough to use the respective changing rooms. However, one day when DH took DD in to the family room he was mortified to find this girl and her brother getting changed in there. Apparently the girl herself looked a bit awkward when DH walked in.

After that he wouldn't take her just in case there was a similar encounter. With hindsight I suppose we should have complained to the leisure centre as this was clearly not what the room was intended for. The poor girl (or my DH) shouldn't have been put in this position by her mum. If the boy wasn't old enough to change himself then his mother should have been in there supervising him rather than sitting yacking to her friend.

Bumpsadaisie · 28/10/2021 14:02

Hm, I would be led by him. My lad is 10 now - when he was 8 he would definitely have wanted to come in with me.

But now he takes himself off to the men's - he will say I can't really come in there mum!

I think at that point you could ask your DH to have a chat with him without scaring him and making him think all men are monsters, about changing room safety and what he should do if there is a problem.

Fa11Forward · 28/10/2021 14:02

HaveringWavering Jog on with that and leave mothers to safeguard their own children how they feel fit.

julieca · 28/10/2021 14:02

Yes it is very rare thankfully for boys to get sexually abused in toilets or changing rooms.
It is more likely to happen at isolated toilets in public parks. If there are families using a changing room it will be fine.

Brefugee · 28/10/2021 14:03

There are many ways in which male entitlement should be challenged but exposing vulnerable young boys who would normally be under parental supervision to the risk of sexual assault or worse is not one of them.

apart from early on in the thread when it was suggested that boys use the men's facilities alone - until the safeguarding experts drew our attention to the fact that this isn't sensible not one person on this thread has suggested putting boys in any harm's way.

Conversely, repeatedly and with apparent complete disregard for what the wishes of girls might be, posters have said implicitly and explicitly that the wishes, feelings, dignity and privacy of girls is nothing to worry about and it will be trampled on at will because they are not willing to engage with anything that might cause them to either engage their brains, put them slightly out, or ask the pool to give them a better solution.
and again, for the hard of thinking: the thread generally mostly has accepted that up to around 8 (as most pools/gyms allow) is ok. It is post 8 that it presents a problem to the girls who are using their own facilities and don't want boys in there.

And what happens when it is suggested that women take their boys into the men's? pearl clutchy answers about how uncomfortable it might make the grown women but younger girls should suck it up. Even though posters on this thread have explained how this kind of thing restricts girls lives and puts them off various activities.

But all hail the boys, amirite?

shreddednips · 28/10/2021 14:03

@FreakinFrankNFurter

The issue as I see it is that we shouldn't have to choose between the comfort and dignity of girls and the safety of boys. There shouldn't have to be a choice, because facilities that can't accommodate both aren't fit for purpose.

This is yet another example of things being set up in a way that ignores the needs of girls and women

This. Except I think it ignores the needs of women and children

As always it's women trying to work out how best to keep women and children safe, when it's men who are the problem

Yes I agree with you, I should have written women and children. Boys aren't being served well by the setups in many leisure centres.

Brefugee · 28/10/2021 14:06

HaveringWavering Jog on with that and leave mothers to safeguard their own children how they feel fit.

jog on yourself. Again what happened to your son is awful and shouldn't have happened. Your knee jerk reaction to put girls in an uncomfortable and unwanted position because of it is unreasonable in the extreme.

doodleZ1 · 28/10/2021 14:07

I don't understand this. You said your son was nearly 9 and then asked for views on when to stop taking him into the women's changing room. So you obviously know it's an issue, you are aware of the problem and you asked how long this can continue. You then said you didn't want your son to grow up thinking he is a second class citizen as he paid the same as the females did for the lesson. He's not a second class citizen you just don't want him going into the men's on his own. There is provision there for him as there is provision there for females. It doesn't matter if you are medics and your son has no issues with the human body. You know there's an issue as you wouldn't have brought up the question in the first place. I had boys and I understand the dilemma. However regardless of your sons ideas and him being used to the human body etc, it is inappropriate for you to continue this much longer.

G5000 · 28/10/2021 14:07

Jog on with that and leave mothers to safeguard their own children how they feel fit.

Yes and so you will also have to accept if women complain, when teenage boys walk into the changing room where their daghters are changing. Luckily most gyms do have a cut-off age for using opposite sex facilities.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 28/10/2021 14:07

*And what happens when it is suggested that women take their boys into the men's? pearl clutchy answers about how uncomfortable it might make the grown women but younger girls should suck it up. Even though posters on this thread have explained how this kind of thing restricts girls lives and puts them off various activities.

But all hail the boys, amirite?*

UR rite.

Instagram · 28/10/2021 14:08

I think most places use their discretion to evaluate the validity of the individual persons situation.
Hence if the staff member admitting the individual can see or is informed of a requirement or need for the child to require supervision at changing time they could either advise they use a cubicle in the ladies or they could have the option of disabled facilities.
I have raised my daughter to be fully aware of her rights to her dignity but also to be compassion and accepting to those with complex needs or those more vulnerable than herself.
I think women’s empowerment and rights should not overshadow basic child protection and safety.
Why make it harder for those children with disabilities.
Most places and people use common sense so this isn’t normally an issue.
I think it’s contradictory that a man identifying as female can use the ladies but not a young child!

Fa11Forward · 28/10/2021 14:08

julieca I’ll tell my son that shall I. I’m sure it will make him feel a lot better.What a load of absolute nonsense. Where on Earth do you get such rubbish.

SausageSizzle · 28/10/2021 14:09

The risk may be low but it's not insignificant. Many boys have been assaulted who had parents standing outside waiting for them.

Evidence for this please @SausageSizzle?

It is estimated that 1 in 35 men are sexually attracted to children. If your young child changing alone doesn't come across a man with a sexual interest in children at some point, he will probably be in the minority.

Then it only requires opportunity (for instance, an empty changing-room) and for the male to act on their interest. There are probably a lot more near-misses that we don't hear about, on top of the assaults that do take place.