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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

999 replies

tailspin21 · 28/10/2021 08:25

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

OP posts:
Thatsplentyjack · 28/10/2021 13:33

According this thread the Precious Boy Children must be allowed to change in girls' spaces

Well yes, my boys are precious to me. Just as precious as my girl and I wouldn't send her into the male changing room alone so....

Comedycook · 28/10/2021 13:33

Why isn't the solution to ask the gym to have a member of staff in the mens or for mum to supervise changing in the mens?

Quite a good idea

Brefugee · 28/10/2021 13:35

Well yes, my boys are precious to me. Just as precious as my girl and I wouldn't send her into the male changing room alone so....

but you're happy to have your possibly going into puberty 10 year old in a changing room with boys feeling uncomfortable so...

G5000 · 28/10/2021 13:35

Having a woman in the mens changing room is the same as having a man in the female changing!!!

Eh, we have 24 pages arguing exactly the opposite - women's is safe, men's full of predators. So no, it's not remotely the same.

Fa11Forward · 28/10/2021 13:36

No thanks Befugee you can. I urge any mum to refuse to be bullied into putting their child at risk. It just isn’t worth it. If you don’t feel comfortable keep them with you. End of.

ChloeCrocodile · 28/10/2021 13:36

I’d rather my daughter put up with discomfort than another child endure what my son went through.

Why not have mums of boys use the men’s changing rooms? That way your daughter doesn’t need to put up with discomfort and boys are kept safe.

CatJumperTwat · 28/10/2021 13:36

No they don’t matter if there is a safeguarding risk for boys. I’d rather my daughter put up with discomfort than another child endure what my son went through.

Girls should not have to suffer because what a man did to your son. Please protect your girl.

shreddednips · 28/10/2021 13:37

The issue as I see it is that we shouldn't have to choose between the comfort and dignity of girls and the safety of boys. There shouldn't have to be a choice, because facilities that can't accommodate both aren't fit for purpose.

This is yet another example of things being set up in a way that ignores the needs of girls and women by expecting them to budge up to keep boys safe. This DOESN'T mean I think boys' safety is less important. But here we are, mainly women I expect, wrangling with how to solve this issue when it should be the responsibility and duty of any organisation that has people in the vulnerable position of showering/changing to ensure that ALL can to do it safely and with privacy as a condition of being able to trade.

If we continue to expect women and girls to budge up, nothing will change. The answer is for organisations to step up and put in proper provision, and to vote with our feet until they do. And it would be nice if more men felt the need to consider these matters and took over some of the fuss making, because it's exhausting.

Cantthinkofaname21 · 28/10/2021 13:38

It’s really sad to see some of these comments from both sides :(

As others have said, mothers of sons why won’t you go into the male changing rooms? If it’s dangerous for your son. As mother your right you make it safer? Why should making it safer mean the default answer is to go into the female changing room?

Im sure your 8 year old son hidden in a cubicle in a female changing room as he walks through using his eyes ….my 9 year old niece hadn’t realised but started her period during lesson and getting changed (in what should be a safe female space) was embarrassed …& that 8 year old boy telling people at school was mortifying for my niece.

It’s not about about younger boys staring at naked ladies (I know that’s not the case they kids) it’s about ensuring what should be safe space for girls - young girls who start puberty younger than boys. It’s about ensuring boys know that girls have a right to a safe space as do they. Would you be happy if the girls walked into the school boy toilets as the girls where busy? Pretty certain as a mother you’d be upset as it’s a safe space for your son and he has a right to privacy. But in a girls most vulnerable state it’s ok for boys to come into their space?

I agree completely that young boys need a safe space also & it should be provided. Like I says in a previous comment during swimming lessons the family changing rooms by default become mother & sons.

Ghoulette · 28/10/2021 13:38

My son is 10 and the policy is 12 (which I think should be a standard).

There is no fucking way in hell I am sending either my boy OR my girl into a changing room, same sex or otherwise, on their own at 10. He comes in and we go into the group change OR he goes into a cubicle.

It is never busy enough for him or the other people in there to not use a cubicle when we go and he isn't a predator leering at girls and women Hmm

YetAnotherSpartacus · 28/10/2021 13:39

Why not have mums of boys use the men’s changing rooms? That way your daughter doesn’t need to put up with discomfort and boys are kept safe

Exactly.

MakkaPakkas · 28/10/2021 13:39

[quote arethereanyleftatall]@MakkaPakkas

Yup, and, for many girls, puberty starts at 8. Or is it only when puberty starts for that particular boy that matters? [/quote]
I'd say case by case, yes.
Although I'm assuming there that most girls would be changing in a room with their mothers anyway. If they were going through puberty and getting changed with their dads in the male changing rooms I think I'd leave it up to what they felt comfortable with themselves.
I'm a mum of girls and boys & the only parent that does swimming so that problem has never come up for us.
Is that what you meant?

Fa11Forward · 28/10/2021 13:39

Feeling discomfort is not suffering,being abused is. Mother’s have the right to keep their children safe. A boy accompanied by their mother is no threat to your child.

Whatinthelord · 28/10/2021 13:40

@Thesearmsofmine

Those suggesting women go into the men’s with their sons which many women would be deeply uncomfortable with, Does that woman’s feelings not count? Do only the feelings of women and girls in the female changing room matter? What about women who this would cause issues for due to religion?
No one woman be “made” to go in the male changing room. I think most commenting on that as an option did so to highlight the issue with it always being women\girls compromising their spaces/safety/comfort and not men.

Much like the curfew suggestion, I think it’s more of a suggestion aimed at triggering a different perspective and pointing out double standards, than a wider policy people think should actually be adopted.

Journeyofthedragons · 28/10/2021 13:40

Because you are asking the gym to magic up the money to employ someone extra.

So Duncan Bannatyne's profit's>women's safety?

Ok, got it.

Hmm
HaveringWavering · 28/10/2021 13:45

The risk may be low but it's not insignificant. Many boys have been assaulted who had parents standing outside waiting for them.

Evidence for this please @SausageSizzle?

Brefugee · 28/10/2021 13:45

I urge any mum to refuse to be bullied into putting their child at risk. It just isn’t worth it. If you don’t feel comfortable keep them with you. End of.

what a piece of work @Fa11Forward. you are saying "fuck girls"

SausageSizzle · 28/10/2021 13:46

There are many ways in which male entitlement should be challenged but exposing vulnerable young boys who would normally be under parental supervision to the risk of sexual assault or worse is not one of them.

lottiegarbanzo · 28/10/2021 13:46

Fundamentally, I just don't understand - and find abhorrent and deeply anti-social - the attitude that 'the rules don't suit me, so I'll just break the rules'.

The rules don't allow you to do what you'd like to do. So you either use your intelligence and ingenuity to find a different, rule-abiding way to achieve what you want to do and/or campaign for the rules to be changed or for alternative provision, or you don't do it.

You don't, if you're a decent human being, just go 'fuck the rest of you and the rules of this establishment, I'll just do whatever the hell I want'.

It's Middle Class Mums meets Hells Angels on here.

ChloeCrocodile · 28/10/2021 13:46

@Thesearmsofmine

Those suggesting women go into the men’s with their sons which many women would be deeply uncomfortable with, Does that woman’s feelings not count? Do only the feelings of women and girls in the female changing room matter? What about women who this would cause issues for due to religion?
I’m repeatedly suggesting it because I don’t understand why the default option should be for girls to compromise dignity and privacy rather than for men/boys to do so. There is an apparent hierarchy at play here:
  • safety
  • boys/men’s feelings
  • girls/women’s feelings

The current situation is that there is a long established practice of separating changing facilities for different sexes from approx 8yo. If people want to change that because they are protecting their sons from harm (fair enough) then they need to do so without compromising the existing rights of other women and girls.

My personal solution would be for family changing or unisex options for every pool.

Comedycook · 28/10/2021 13:47

@SausageSizzle

There are many ways in which male entitlement should be challenged but exposing vulnerable young boys who would normally be under parental supervision to the risk of sexual assault or worse is not one of them.
Well said
CatJumperTwat · 28/10/2021 13:48

There are many ways in which male entitlement should be challenged, and teaching them that it's fine to enter women's changing rooms is definitely one of them.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 28/10/2021 13:49

what a piece of work @Fa11Forward. you are saying "fuck girls"

Yep.

HaveringWavering · 28/10/2021 13:51

The alternative is that a boy has to get changed poolside, or alternatively his parent can help resolve this by lobbying the pool to provide facilities for him, or identifying another pool which will. If none of that works, he will have to stop doing the thing he loves until he is of an age at which he can safely use the facilities designed for him.

You forgot the obvious alternative @AudacityBaby, which is that the ridiculous paedo-paranoid crew get over themselves and the boys just use the men’s changing room.

Journeyofthedragons · 28/10/2021 13:52

@CatJumperTwat

There are many ways in which male entitlement should be challenged, and teaching them that it's fine to enter women's changing rooms is definitely one of them.
Well said, some of the attitudes to women on here are unbelievable.

It's always not "not my little Nigel".