Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

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Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

When you start making curfews for men you're going backwards, not forwards. Historically, people of colour had enforced curfews and segregation. And they fought against it for good reason. Feminism isn't about segregation and women's rights and safety being more important than men's, it's about inclusivity and acceptance.

All I'm reading here is a load of men hating harpies saying the PHYSICAL SAFETY of little boys is less important than the feelings of a women and girls in a bloody cubicle!!

Most of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

@HaveringWavering

OP, it’s a swimming lesson you say, so presumably there are other young boys there at the same time? Perhaps they are in the men’s changing rooms with their Dads? I really would not worry too much about his safety doing a quick change in a cubicle in what sounds like a private gym pool, in a room with other parents there. Yes, paedophiles exist but the chance of there being a random predator in this situation lying in wait in the changing room to prey on 8 year old boys is extremely small.

Do you let him go into public gents’ toilets in his own when out and about?

This. The overwhelming majority of Abuse occurs in homes not toilets and changing rooms

@julieca and that is something that needs to be acted upon. Schools are meant to be working hard on this, getting rid of the boys will be boys culture, and mums of sons need to be doing this too.

I haven't read the entire thread, but can i just point out the 'just throw a onesie on' doesn't work if you don't drive as you can't exactly walk around drenched in winter so actual facilities need to exist for everyone.

Wow I am relieved that my pool has a ‘changing village’ with all cubicles. There is no way that my 8 year old would be happy sent off to change by himself. Swimming pools can be stressful enough anyway, noisy and bright and disorientating.

All I'm reading here is a load of men hating harpies saying the PHYSICAL SAFETY of little boys is less important than the feelings of a women and girls in a bloody cubicle!!

Harpies! wanting girls to have privacy and dignity. How very dare we!

incidentally: most of those people advocating for the girls (who aren't being asked by anyone if they mind this) are saying we need to find a solution if the men's is out of bounds

I like the idea of mums taking their boys into the men's. Because so what if the men or other boys feel discomfort. Nobody cares, Right?

The family changing area at my son's swimming lessons are divided into 4 seperate rooms: mothers with daughters, mothers with sons, fathers with daughters, fathers with sons. Which seems the fairest way of doing it (and actually less complicated than it sounds). Of course I suppose that raises the issue of what if 1 parent is with 2 children... but then I guess depending on ages either you go by the sex of the oldest or send the oldest in on their own and go in with the younger.
Boys/girls getting changed on their own go into the mothers with sons/mothers with daughters bit.

@AudacityBaby as the mother of boys and girls. I'm fully aware of what 8yo boys can be like. And I still say that just because a tiny minority have been raised in a way that allows less appropriate behaviour, it's unfair to allude that they're all the same.

[quote KurtWildeWitchOfTheWoods]@AudacityBaby as the mother of boys and girls. I'm fully aware of what 8yo boys can be like. And I still say that just because a tiny minority have been raised in a way that allows less appropriate behaviour, it's unfair to allude that they're all the same. [/quote]
Wait, aren't you also saying that boys shouldn't be going into the mens' changing rooms because it's dangerous? That's also a tiny minority that you're alluding are all the same...

Nah, Kurt, you don't get to say that if we can't say that the miniscule amount of sexual predators likely to be in the changing rooms when you send your boys in isn't a problem (which i have never said, btw)

If all men are potentially sexual predators, then so are all 8 year old boys because some of them do ping bra straps and make comments.

Which is it?

@LoveGoldberg

My niece just started going out into town. We’ve talked to her about staying safe by not being alone, having lids for drinks, sharing her location on her phone so we can track her if we are worried, she has a rape alarm, she wears shoes she can run in. Why the fuck does she have to be so safety conscious and make all these changes to keep herself safe from danger. But when it’s the other way round it’s still our problem. I don’t want your son in the changing room with me for various reasons - I’m a teacher in my local area, I don’t want a boy from my class walking in when I don’t suspect it, your innocent little boy is different with his friends, they make rude jokes, they tell each other what they’ve seen. I have the human right to privacy so that I don’t end up being discussed. I don’t want my 9 year old to be taught to accept she has to feel uncomfortable because a boys feelings and safety is more important than hers. I don’t want to live in a world that accepts males are a problem and we do fuck all about it.

This is a really poor comparison.

A (presumably) teenage girl whose parents have made the decision that she is mature enough to go out by herself at night and properly assess and deal with the safety risks that brings is an entirely different matter to an 8 or 9 year old primary-aged child, regardless of gender.

But when it’s the other way round it’s still our problem.

If you can't see that asking a teenage girl to carry a rape alarm and assess risk is different to asking an 8 year old boy to do this, then I despair.

A teenage girl does not normally require to be accompanied by a parent or carer when out of the house. A primary-aged child does. If it is not acceptable for me to leave my primary-age child unaccompanied in the safety of their own home, why is it acceptable for me to leave them unaccompanied in a public changing-room accessible to random men?

@Brefugee

All I'm reading here is a load of men hating harpies saying the PHYSICAL SAFETY of little boys is less important than the feelings of a women and girls in a bloody cubicle!!

Harpies! wanting girls to have privacy and dignity. How very dare we!

If you think that trumps the physical safety of a small boy then yes. absolute harpies. I have boys and girls and I treat their physical safety and feelings EQUALLY.

Women wanted EQUALITY, now for some reason they want segregation and curfews.

I don't think it's necessarily that boys that age would be deliberately sexualising anyone. But that they are too young to understand what is and isn't appropriate and they say pretty much whatever pops into their head. And this often happens in a changing room because they see things that trigger thoughts they may not have had otherwise.

Through his life most conversations I've had with my DS about sex/reproduction/the differences between boys and girls have happened in bathrooms, when getting dressed, when he sees a pregnant woman or a baby, watching a documentary where animals are born, etc. So a child seeing a body part they wouldn't normally see could trigger a question that would easily feel inappropriate to the people around them.

@MakkaPakkas

Yup, and, for many girls, puberty starts at 8. Or is it only when puberty starts for that particular boy that matters?

it's unfair to allude that they're all the same.

Nobody is saying that all 8yo are sexual predators, anymore than we are claiming that all men are. We are saying that:

• girls have a right to safety from the minority of boys who are a problem
• dignity and privacy are important as well as physical safety
• if you believe dignity and privacy aren’t important, why not accompany your son into the men’s changing room?

@KurtWildeWitchOfTheWoods

When you start making curfews for men you're going backwards, not forwards. Historically, people of colour had enforced curfews and segregation. And they fought against it for good reason. Feminism isn't about segregation and women's rights and safety being more important than men's, it's about inclusivity and acceptance.

All I'm reading here is a load of men hating harpies saying the PHYSICAL SAFETY of little boys is less important than the feelings of a women and girls in a bloody cubicle!!

Most of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I agree that the safety of ALL children, make or female, is essential. But one of the many problems with using female changing rooms as a solution is that it allows the problem of adult male behaviour to continue to be the problem of girls and women.

There should be single sex spaces for girls and women (and boys and men for that matter) to change in. There should also be family changing to keep young boys safe with their parents. The current setup that many pools have does not allow everyone to change safely without compromising the dignity of girls and women. That's not acceptable, and I certainly will be making a fuss about it if I encounter that kind of setup.

@KurtWildeWitchOfTheWoods

There is so much stupid in your post, I dont even know where to begin.

It is clear from this thread that dignity and privacy for women and girls is impossible to protect.

Thee are alternatives to using the men's which do not involve taking boys into the women's but that's not good enough because boys just just be allowed to force their way anywhere they like. Better start teaching them that from a young age!

Thee are alternatives to using the men's which do not involve taking boys into the women's but that's not good enough because boys just just be allowed to force their way anywhere they like. Better start teaching them that from a young age!

Yep.

@KurtWildeWitchOfTheWoods

Women wanted EQUALITY, now for some reason they want segregation and curfews.

The MRA's have arrived, sniffed out an opportunity to take away more woman's rights have you?

@CheshireChat

I haven't read the entire thread, but can i just point out the 'just throw a onesie on' doesn't work if you don't drive as you can't exactly walk around drenched in winter so actual facilities need to exist for everyone.

Quite. I take my 3 sons swimming each week, we walk.

why is it acceptable for me to leave them unaccompanied in a public changing-room accessible to random men?

Precisely because it is public, with you standing outside the door and for such a short time that the risk is very low indeed. But even if you aren’t happy to accept that risk, why not go into the men’s with him? Why insist that it is women and girls who need to compromise their dignity and privacy?

All I'm reading here is a load of men hating harpies saying the PHYSICAL SAFETY of little boys is less important than the feelings of a women and girls

All I'm reading here is that if parents do not think it's safe that their boy goes into men's changing room, then their solution is simply to take what they want without any regard to women's and girls' rights.

@KurtWildeWitchOfTheWoods what the heck are you talking about? nobody here has asked for anything other than girls are allowed to feel comfortable in a women's changing room by not having boys older than 8 in there accompanied or not

In the past on other discussions there have been entirely tongue in cheek references to maybe men curtailing their activities in the way women are told to when there is a male predator on the loose

Whaever. And i don't care what all the mums of the precious boys want. I don't want girls to be uncomfortable in their own space. Find your own solution that doesn't impinge on girls. (note: this is in no way - because i know now MN works - saying that i don't care about boy's safety. I do. I care about boys's safety as much as i care about girls feeling comfortable in girl's spaces)

Wait, aren't you also saying that boys shouldn't be going into the mens' changing rooms because it's dangerous? That's also a tiny minority that you're alluding are all the same...

There's a massive difference between a young child and an adult man. You're actually ridiculous. Of course he's likely to be perfectly safe in there, but what if he feels vulnerable or worried? If you're not interested in his physical safety then how about his feelings? Or should he just suck it up because he's a boy?

Comparing little boys to adult males is so far off the stupid scale it's unreal.

Its only a tiny minority of men who sexually abuse women. But according to some on this thread they should all have a curfew just for being men!! So no, of course they're not all the same.

I remember in school when the majority of the class had behaved and just 2 or 3 had played up. The teacher kept everyone back though. This often backfires. Of everyone is going to get lumped in with the ones who cause trouble, what's the point of being good? It's exactly the same when you start considering curfews for all men. Guaranteed it won't have the effect some of you seem to think it will. Psychology says if you tell a good person they're a monster enough times, they become it.