Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

I care about the safety of young boys. I agree that they need better facilities. Better facilities. Not to nick the ones that already exist, at the expense of those they are designed for. Please, for God's sake, campaign for those facilities.
This seems simple, and I am happy with the mixed sex, all individual changing our local pools all have. But then I hear (and believe) that women are at greater risk in unisex changing and that we shouldn't want those. Presumably my son and I are also at risk in those changing rooms, of being videod or assaulted. So what is the answer?

Privacy and safety are in many ways interlinked. Somebody looking at your naked body when you don’t want them to is not just ‘discomfort’.

@ChloeCrocodile

Safety trumps discomfort 10fold.

So mums should be able to go in the men’s with their sons. The safety of the male child trumps the discomfort of men and boys who want single sex changing.

I would be interested in the response if this happened. Maybe more likely to resolve the issue if some men were impacted by it.

“Never mind me. Just supervising my son changing in case any of you are predators”.

If you don’t feel comfortable you go with what you think is best to keep your child safe, end of.

Indeed. I don't feel comfortable with males in female changing room and I don't think it's safe to tell girls they have to accept whatever men want.

The answer is a curfew for men.

Actually fuck right off.

@Whatinthelord

I imagine adult males (without young daughters they care for) rarely give any thought to toilets and changing rooms.

It’s sad isn’t it that the issue here is risk from adult males ( as I’m understanding that most reluctance for boys to use male changing is about risk rather than inability to change alone) and yet I haven’t seen any suggestions, and can’t think of any suggestions, of things they could do to address the issue.

No suggestions from me. Just a sad observation.

@Whatinthelord

Male only swimming sessions, maybe an hour or two a day.
Then boys are free and safe to use the changing rooms. Let’s face it it’s adult males that are the problem.

@BoredZelda

I would have stopped doing a hobby I enjoyed, using facilities that were there for me to use, because you'd decided to co-opt them for your son

And the alternative is, a boy has to get changed poolside under a big towel, or give up the thing he loves because apparently at 8 he is a sexual predator.

it is actually the same as the trans thing.

Yes and the answer is the same, have separate spaces so all groups are catered for.

It wont change though.

Not whilst people are intent on arguing pedantically about definitions of sex and gender and male and female, screaming about MY RIGHTS instead of coming together and agreeing an easy solution which works for all.

Literally nobody is saying that 8 year olds are sexual predators. Literally nobody. We're saying that 8 year old girls shouldn't have to be forced to be around 8 year old boys whilst undressed.

The alternative is that a boy has to get changed poolside, or alternatively his parent can help resolve this by lobbying the pool to provide facilities for him, or identifying another pool which will. If none of that works, he will have to stop doing the thing he loves until he is of an age at which he can safely use the facilities designed for him.

A girl, on the other hand, will have to stop doing the thing she loves unless she gets to an age at which she can deal with boys in the facilities designed for her.

I don't understand the dry robe/beach ready comments. That certainly reduces the amount of time the boy needs to spend in a changing room alone, but they still have to do it - I've never been at a pool you could access except through the changing rooms, or that allowed you to leave your outside clothes or a "dry robe" next to the pool while you swam.

disagree. What if the mum is getting changed in a cubicle or using the loo? Realistically she won’t keep eyes on him all the time. And even if she does, what makes you think he couldn’t abuse girls/women? Grabbing them for example, or taking pictures. This is not just «discomfort»

Yep.

I agree @Whatinthelord. The problem is that, although most adult males don't pose a threat themselves, they are often in denial about the threat that a small (but still significant) proportion of men do pose and so they argue that women consistently exaggerate the threat. So you see "Not all men" arguments being used to object to restricting male access to communal spaces.

@LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee

a 9 year old boy in the company of his mother is not a threat I disagree. What if the mum is getting changed in a cubicle or using the loo? Realistically she won’t keep eyes on him all the time. And even if she does, what makes you think he couldn’t abuse girls/women? Grabbing them for example, or taking pictures. This is not just «discomfort»

So you think a nine year old boy whilst his mother turns her back for a moment may start sexually abusing women? . Christ, that's some imagination you have.

@KurtWildeWitchOfTheWoods

The answer is a curfew for men.

Actually fuck right off.

Why! Healthy argument there. Why not, let them have the problems, the difficulties, the anxiety, deciding what’s safe and what’s not. Making a risk assessment every single time I and my children leave the house. Why not.

We need the NAMALT to stand u and be heard.

Actually @AudacityBaby there are some people on this thread alluding to small boys being sexual predators. Like the post I quoted from @LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee for starters.

It really wouldn't bother me if he was up to age 12 in the women's changing rooms. As long as he wasn't outright staring at naked women and that he was respectful and kept to himself. I speak as someone who knew of a young boy who was sexually assaulted by a man in the gents toilets in a supermarket

The voice of reason.

the voice of someone who has ignored around 200 posts saying that girls from about age 8 don't want your sons in their space

Why is the answer to perceived male violence to take away privacy from girls? What do we say when the police say "don't go out at night, ladies"?

Again and again on this thread, loud and clear: the feelings of girls are to be overridden and ignored while the boys take over their spaces.

@julieca

I care. And I'm sorry your daughters have been made to feel that their needs come second to boys at such a young age.
I hope they didnt give up and have kept swimming!

I am going to guess a lot of young girls don't want to change in a room with other girls and women either. I certainly didn't. More cubicles please.

My DS is 8 and I won't allow him to change in the male changing room alone. We now go to a pool with family changing rooms if that's an option for you?

@KurtWildeWitchOfTheWoods

Actually *@AudacityBaby there are some people on this thread alluding to small boys being sexual predators. Like the post I quoted from @LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee* for starters.

I spoke earlier in the thread about being poked in the chest and having my bra straps pulled down/pinged by boys of 8 or 9. I wasn't calling them sexual predators, and I don't believe Lovely was either. My point was that boys of this age are capable of sexualising girls, and that this more than about girls just feeling a little awkward.

@Tailendofsummer

I am going to guess a lot of young girls don't want to change in a room with other girls and women either. I certainly didn't. More cubicles please.

I agree....I don't want to get changed in front of other women...or anyone really. I never have felt comfortable with that

So mums should be able to go in the men’s with their sons. The safety of the male child trumps the discomfort of men and boys who want single sex changing.

There. There you have it. Go to men's. If anybody complains, tell them safety trumps their discomfort, privacy and feelings, so tough luck.

@HaveringWavering

I find it really really sad that so many people think that a men’s changing room in a swimming pool is “just not safe” for an eight year old boy whose Mum is outside. Do you really believe that there is a paedophile lurking round every corner, and that they would prey on a young boy in full view of other men? What a sad, paranoid perspective in society. I blame the Sun.

At my local pool a young boy was sexually assaulted in the mens quite recently.

I am a very relaxed parent as it goes but I would not allow a young boy into the changing rooms alone.

I think venues such as swimming pools are likely to attract paedophiles tbh as there are lots of opportunities to see young children naked, so are actually higher risk than other venues.

*So mums should be able to go in the men’s with their sons. The safety of the male child trumps the discomfort of men and boys who want single sex changing.

There. There you have it. Go to men's. If anybody complains, tell them safety trumps their discomfort, privacy and feelings, so tough luck*

Yep.

@ImUninsultable thanks

And some of you forget what 10-year-old boys are like when not with their mummies. Some do make sexual comments to girls their own age. They are not 5 years old.

The boy needs to learn to get dressed in a modest way. Maybe in the bathroom cubicle or with a towel.

His father should go with him the first time